Gove: "Post-Brexit talks: UK prepared to walk away in June if no progress"

[Miljea]

BBC News

Is this the Brexit you voted for, Leavers??

Seriously? Threatening the EU?

Text: "The UK has warned the EU it will walk away from trade talks in June unless there is a "broad outline" of a deal.

Michael Gove told MPs the UK wanted to strike a "comprehensive free trade agreement" in 10 months.

But the government would not accept any alignment with EU laws as the EU is demanding, with Mr Gove adding: "We will not trade away our sovereignty."

The EU has already set out its priorities ahead of the formal start of the talks on Monday."

One would almost think No Deal was precisely what we're heading for....

Maybe someone will come from the other side and tell us, in italics why this is great news.

We are not at war with Europe, they are not going to cut off our supplies (or vice versa).

No, but as a third country we will have different terms which will be less advantageous to the UK. They will do what benefits the EU.

As for not being at war with the EU - I get the distinct impression from the Tory party that they would like to be - or at least have a trade war. Ideally they would like to float the UK off across the Atlantic - but that isn't going to happen.

The EU don’t hold all the cards, but they do have the largest market which obviously means they are in a stronger position. The financial services sector will need access to EU market.

I think most leavers are failing to grasp is that a Canada style deal was never on offer and how LPF will work, that it is actually still compatible with sovereignty. Essentially if we want tariff free and quota free trade we will have to agree to LPF commitments. If at any time in the future we decide we want to diverge on LPF we will incur tariffs as a result. So in future we could still diverge if we wanted too, and if we felt that the effects of diverging are worth the tariff trade off. The EU aren’t asking us to sign up to indefinite convergence, so please can a leaver explain to me how they think the above is incompatible with Sovereignty?

State aid is a little more complex as the EU are obviously asking that we do align indefinitely, but I suspect EU would be happy if we agreed to keep state aid rules as they are now indefinitely rather than also being forced to adopt changes in the future. But all trade agreements are give and take and ultimately we will agree to do things we don't want to do In all the agreements we sign, such as expose our agricultural industries to dangerous competition from abroad in the form of cheap imports, in order promote other sectors abroad be reducing tariffs.

Currently a Socialist govt in Spain. When the right get back in, Gibraltar is fucked.

Seem to be still on this that "Leavers" were conned and just voted that way because they believed the lies.

Leavers especially in the north couldn't get a monkeys whether there's a deal / no deal etc. They didn't vote around the arguments put forward they voted that way because they have seen very little benefit and indeed percieved harm from being in Europe.

How difficult is that to understand.

Labour still haven't grasped it and are continuing to tell their traditional supporters how stupid they are.

Leavers especially in the north couldn't get a monkeys whether there's a deal / no deal etc.
That is because they do not realise what EU membership actually means
and thus what they will lose when it actually ceases.
Anybody who thinks that a no deal situation next January will not affect them
is in for a rather nasty shock

What do Leavers in the north hope a Johnson Government will deliver?

ListeningQuietly
They know fine well what it hasn't done for them, no big loss as far as people are concerned.

Peregrina
They have no expectation from Boris the Baffoon other than leave, as in gone with least ties better. As above most couldn't care less and expect to get shafted by him on other things like tax etc. as usual.

When you have 75% of seats in Northumberland Tory and mining areas in Durham with Tory MP's, people including Labour MP's are failing to grasp the depth of feeling / betrayal that has and is felt. Not so long ago (before Brexit) even to suggest that would of seen you sectioned.

FUSOI
Do the new Northern Tories actually expect anything to change for the better ?
If so, what and how?

I wouldn't call them Tories.
But have the same expectations for the rest as they did under Labour. Which was basically ignored, while they argued about the marginal seats in London and making themselves millionaires, while calling their traditional supporters stupid.

The ironic thing is Boris the Baffoon hasn't got to do much to make them feel at least listened to, because Labour didn't even bother setting the bar, let alone keeping it low.

There are still parts of the North that haven't recovered from Thatcher The Tax Dodger, and where completely ignored under Phony Tony / Tory Blair. So Brexit in any form (preferably the strictest) doesn't worry them one jot, been there done that, had umpteen T-Shirts. Should make quite good viewing.

So Brexit in any form (preferably the strictest) doesn't worry them one jot
I'm looking forward to them being delighted with it

They might have low expectations but they certainly are expecting something from brexit/boris - they are expecting better access to the NHS - lower waiting lists/more beds/more GP appts, and less crowded schools, housing being freed up, better wages - basically a visible improvement in all the problems that were blamed on FOM.

LittleRootie
You can believe that if you like, but that would be immediate and very expensive and we all know thats not going to happen. It was more a case of stopping it getting worse.

There was only one surprise in the election result in the north and that was Labour managed to hold onto as many seats as they did. The only reason they didn't lose more is that lots of people just couldn't bring themselves to vote Tory, so didn't vote. Thats why there was double digit swings and nearly double digit falls in voting numbers. Its the only thing that saved them, especially in the North East.

They were warned on more than one occasion and took no notice, they never believed that those seats would turn blue.

They still haven't stopped digging and believe everyone will just return no matter what they say and do. They have their heads buried in the sand and their arses in cloud cuckoo land.

I find this all a strange argument - Labour let us down, so lets's be let down as much or more by the Tories.

Unhappy with the farmer, the chickens decided to vote for the fox.

Labour still haven't grasped it and are continuing to tell their traditional supporters how stupid they are

Until Labour have a new leader, we don't really know what they are thinking, all the candidates are trying not to trash Corbyn.

But regardless, poorer voters should realise that things can get a whole lot worse, because whether they like it or not, they are reliant on MC taxes and if the economy goes into depression, there won't be much of those.

BBC Dec 2019
"The Treasury is reportedly planning to rewrite rules governing public spending in a move that may benefit areas in the Midlands and North of England."

"The changes, reported by the Times, would make it easier for cash to be allocated to projects outside of London and the South East."

"It could help boost investment in infrastructure, business development projects and schemes like free ports."

"The Treasury has not denied the reports."

"Current rules require government to allocate cash to projects that promise the biggest economic benefits."

"Those projects tend to have most impact in areas with more people and businesses."

"But under the new plans, reported on Friday, investment decisions would be made with a focus on reducing inequality between northern and southern England, rather than promoting overall economic growth across the country."

"It will affect decisions made about projects ranging from rail improvements to investment in scientific research."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50925321

They know fine well what it hasn't done for them, no big loss as far as people are concerned.

Ok so let's say those leave voters are like passagers stuck on a shit charter flight in cramped conditions and potty mouthed cabin crew. That flight isn't 'doing it for them' because it's shit- except in this metaphor, the airline is the Tory party, not the EU. Brexit as a 'solution' is akin to crashing the plane with everyone on board. Sure, that's a change...

The Freeports were useless last time and full of crime
that is why they were closed down
Freeports are not the solution to anything.

You can believe that if you like, but that would be immediate and very expensive and we all know thats not going to happen. It was more a case of stopping it getting worse.

Nope. People had it drilled into them by the likes of Farage and Johnson that the EU were to blame for the problems. We have left the EU and therefore the problems are expected to improve. Folks are not going to settle for it not getting worse and that's not what they voted for.

Labour still haven't grasped it and are continuing to tell their traditional supporters how stupid they are

All the leadership contenders have stated that they understand the feelings that lead to the election result and realise they have a lot to do to win back voters. I don't know who you've been listening to.

We need not bother with what a blabbermouth like Johnson says he will do - we need to judge his actions.

If in five years time, or however long his administration lasts, more real money has been spent in the Midlands and North, then we can say OK - give credit where it's due, he was as good as his word.

We shall see. Or not.

I don't doubt that Labour under Blair and Brown didn't do enough for their heartlands and did take those seats for granted, but if anyone thinks that the current Tories will be better they will find they need to think again.

I say current Tories, because old Tories in the MacMillan mould did do things for such areas - MacMillan built council houses and he didn't undo the NHS.

Peregrina
"...........I don't doubt that Labour under Blair and Brown.........."
Yep nigh on 50 years of being ignored, in the case of New Tory, betrayed, why do you think the votes dispeared so quickly.
Politicians especially Blair and Thatcher always use "majority" as mandates for what they want. Blair is still going on about it now, forgetting about corruption and what most people voted for was change not a continuation of the same.

The referendum was black and white nowhere for them to hide. And they basically stuck two fingers up. Ironically mostly at their traditional supporters. They have forgotten they are there to represent the people that voted for them, not to tell them to FO and how stupid they are and not take any notice at all.

They still haven't learnt trying to keep the same line even rejoin, Abbot arguing for low wages.
We have had 5 days or so of headlines on LGBT or whatever its called, really I wonder how many of those are on the streets, using foodbanks etc. compared with the general population. After the election they were still going on about Fox Hunting on FB. Nothing like getting your priorities right.
They have been going on change in pensions etc. but seem to forget the change is due to the 2007 Pension Act, I wonder who introduced that.

Council Tax is biased against the North and cuts more dramatic effect. Nothing done under New Tory, housing etc.

New Tory / Phony Tony didn't just do enough they made things worse.
Life expectancy has and is continuing to fall in the north especially, blaming austerity when in reality it goes back to Thatcher the Tax Dodger and the Pontius Pilate job of Blair.

I will tell you again, if you keep getting the shit end of the stick, it doesn't really matter who is holding the other end, if there is a bit more shit on it it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things.

I get it your bothered and it might effect you adversely, well welcome to the real world.

We have record inequality, homelessness, poverty, foodbanks etc. We have at least 1 decade probably more of it and a right wing buffoon is more in touch with traditional Labour supporters than the party that is supposed but hasn't represented them for 50 years, not the loony left but decent hard working people that have been pissed on.

If they continue they will never get elected again because the northen voters will continue to leave and the party will die. No one in the north will mourn their passing. They sold their soul and their supporters down the river under Phony Tony / Brown.

They might be the largest party by numbers in Western Europe (me included) but they are also the most irrelevant.

The walking away bit is interesting as regards normal negotiation. Walking away would normally result in the status quo being maintained. In this case if we walk away we are deliberately making things worse. Or is my logic out on this?

Walking away would normally result in the status quo being maintained.

Does this not depend on the relationship being negotiated? If you are trying to negotiate something new, and one side walks away then the status quo remains the same. If one party to a divorce walks away, then the parties can end up in a sort of limbo - which I suppose is the status quo.

As it stands we have half walked out with the Withdrawal Agreement being passed, so now what?

@Jason118 the walk away position is effective if both parties have 'must haves', so the other party walking away with nothing changing would negatively affect them. Good practice is to prioritise, so you would have a few points which were absolutely non negotiable, and others which you know are important to the other party but are happy to give away; not that you let the others know where things rank.