Immigration: Sh*t just got real...

[Miljea]

Wonder how Timmy Wetherspoons is frothing today?

Points based??

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51550421BBC

"Low-skilled workers would not get visas under post-Brexit immigration plans unveiled by the government.

It is urging employers to "move away" from relying on "cheap labour" from Europe and invest in retaining staff and developing automation technology."

And take on the 6m 'economically inactive' 16-64 year olds in Britain.

Good luck with that.

Gosh, that devil is in the detail, innit?

And, separate but important point, who the chuff is clamouring to get into the UK, now, other than southern Asians uniting families? (Which I completely understand).

They probably historically didn’t have the state safety net like we do here

There is something very, completely wrong with linking IQ Levels to Race, even positively. Because that opens up assertions that some Races have lower IQ Levels.

Can't believe this posting direction has been allowed to stay here as long as it has. I've obviously over-estimated the calibre of most Brexit Thread posters here.

@HateIsNotGood

Completely agree, reminds me of some of the atitudes i came across in South Africa.

Hate
I CBA to report other people's posts
I find that open and clear debunking to kill a thread works better

IQ tests are racist
www.jstor.org/stable/41068539?seq=1

Priti Patel clearly hates Anglo Saxons

The speaker on Question time last night - who is a known Tommy Robinson supporter - hates everybody else

Phew - thank goodness I'm not the only one here that goes,,,steady up dude, think about what yor saying.

LQ - thanks, as I always appreciate your pov, but in this specifc case of IQ/Race I find whatever anyone else's pov is on otherb katters irrelevant.

Overall I find that this tendency to equate votes, political party affiliaton, religious leaninings, gender identifications and etc as definitive descriptions of what any individual believes somewhat tiresome.

But then I've always been an issue/floating voter.

otherb katters irrelevant - if only I chose to write this :)

• on this is irrelevant

Is what I meant to say
:)

There was some NHS (official, I swear) bloke on Wake Up to Money (?) this morning saying that we ordinary people will have to look after our elderly more ourselves. There won't be someone to pop in & give them food & their meds so we have to do those jobs ourselves for our parents. This is simply how things will be (we must accept).

Can you see Priti Patel, Javid, BJ -- popping home to check on their elderly parents b/c there's no social care? Somehow I don't envision it.

Nosepicking IDS said that employers will be forced to hire & train up existing employees to get skills they want. He seemed to say this would... create a vacuum of more low skill jobs for the unemployed & econ. inactive to move into.

We had vacuums of skills in the 1950s in the NHS. Did we go all out to train up people here? Nope, we imported staff from the Commonwealth and Ireland; which 50 years on gave rise to the Windrush scandal.

Training will only happen when the political will is there, and at the moment this will is firmly concentrated on more ££££ for the rich.

There was some NHS (official, I swear) bloke on Wake Up to Money (?) this morning saying that we ordinary people will have to look after our elderly more ourselves.

That will end up being more unpaid wife work.

Can you all see that the real agenda is to kill all feminism has achieved?

Simplistically Id say I would hope this may contribute to driving wages up. However am aware it's not as simple as that and there are knock on effects of driving costs for everything up. However wages in the UK are still the same as in 2008. Ive got relatives in Holland and where once it seemed UK wages were better, it now seems to me it's much worse. Re care workers - they definitely should be paid more. I'm sure I watched a documentary a year or so ago that said that most care workers were placed by agencies. The care homes (particularly government ones) paid the agency a decent amount, the agency paid the worker next to nothing and thus earned huge profits, and were also based offshore so they paid no tax.

Also agree with Songs. And what about people who don't live near there parents? We don't all live in a village that we were born in. Seems a very backward view...

Also, thanks to divorce, some couples have four sets of parents to care for.

I really am not sure what the issue is here? Britain is a developed society that needs skilled people and people that contribute more to the tax system than they take out. I think we've got addicted to cheap labour and forgotten that the average Brit has not had a pay rise in years but costs have spiralled.

So yes, I am ready to have less competition in the workforce and a pay rise, which is desperately needed. High immigration holds down wages. Why are the turkeys voting for Thanksgiving?

Wages are held down by shareholders and investors demanding increased returns year on year. Staff costs are usually the highest exp

Silentpool are you happy as well to pay the higher prices that the higher wages will bring?

Given that an increase in my wages will help me afford more, yes, I would prefer to see increased prosperity across the board. Do we really want a miserable serf class here?

At the moment, I choose not to buy coffee from the chains that rely on poorly paid labour or to get my nails done at places with staff with questionable immigration status (read trafficked labour) and clean my own flat etc... There is a clear price to be paid in cheap labour, cheap clothes etc.

I think we will have to be prepared to do more ourselves and have less convenience.

Peeledplumtomotoes, I think the idea that investors and share holders have so much sway in keeping pay rates down is very simplistic. As a share holder in the past I don't remember having any sway at all bar going to the AGM and voting for the members of the board.
The companies who have notoriously paid min.wages on zero contracts employing almost exclusively Eastern Europeans in their warehouses are the likes of Sports Direct who are dictated to by a company boss with a specific philosophy. I would be only too happy to see the likes of him go under.
The care industry is a specific area where I think there should be exemptions. However encouragement to train locals and stop relying on agency labour( often brought in from Europe) would certainly improve the profitability of many care providers.

Care workers are funded largely out of the council tax.
Either it has to go up by a lot more than 2.999% a year
or other services have to be cut
if care workers are to be paid more.

Ditto school support staff
ditto NHS support staff
ditto all MNW council staff like bin men and street cleaners

and if agriculture and food processing pay more then the cheap food will get more expensive
which will rather eat into those rises in pay

@ListeningQuietly care homes are cash cows for there owners. They pay the staff as little as possible because they can get away with it.

IQ tests are racist

Quite apart from the obvious issue of testing people from a culture where you need to develop entirely different cognitive skills to access literacy, as in Asia, where a child has to get to grips with 10000 pictorial characters rather than an alphabet constructed into words but a simple grammatical structure with no tenses and entirely different ways of expressing / conveying creativity, ideas, emotion etc . Science is a long way from understanding the impact of culture on cognitive development and attainment, let alone measure it. Which is why the whole basis of PISA testing is undermined theconversation.com/international-pisa-tests-show-how-evidence-based-policy-can-go-wrong-77847?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI47vM-MPl5wIVibbtCh15tQR_EAAYAiAAEgJ_cfD_BwE

tonglong Care homes, often run by genuinely caring individuals and organisations / charities, are going out of business because of the difficulty of breaking even, even with the cross subsidisation from self funding patients for the shortfall in what Council's pay for those who do not self fund versus costs. I spent a long time researching the sector for my FIL and basically found that homes fell into the categories of small family run homes where the owners were genuinely caring, charity run homes again genuinely caring, chains of varying sizes run by companies seeking to buy up small homes and strip costs out in order to make money (often with Tory MPs on the boards ) . I would not have put him in a home run by the last category, horrible soulless places where people were just waiting to die. They all face the same issue that Councils do not pay enough to cover the cost of care, even whilst they charged £1500 per month to self funders (the going rate in the south east ). After a period that exhausted the whole family caring for him 24 /7 and deprived him of dignity (would you like your nappy changed by your DIL) my FIL ended up in a wonderful home run by a charity where he had superb expert care. Not just security and dignity but they found so many ways to enrich his life and improve his quality of life , including psychological help with long suppressed trauma.

In an affluent town they could attract only a few local people. Of all the wonderful people who cared for him only one was local, the rest split evenly between immigrants from Europe and the rest of the world. No money was being stripped out, it was all going into providing the best possible care for patients. If wages go up and the government make good on their promise that nobody will have to sell their homes to pay for care (so the number of self funding patients will fall through the floor) then councils will need to find even more funding to make up the shortfall of funding between the approx £400 per month they pay and costs that are nearer say, £1000, but with increased wages that could well double. And the proportion tax paying workers funding care to the increasing number of people needing care is falling . The sums simply do not add up.

So what gives? We ship our parents to cheaper parts of the country where there is the cheaper labour? Or even out of the country? Conscript people who do not want to wipe bottoms, let alone do it in a way that gives dignity and care? Leave people in their homes to fall and clog up the NHS even more than is already happening?

Note that in spite of all the emotion around it Cummings has not come up with any proposals to deal with this crisis, caring for old people is not in the populist playbook unlike keeping foreigners out........

silentpool 'I think we will have to be prepared to do more ourselves and have less convenience.'

Who in their right mind would agree to this out of choice, not necessity?

Which country would actually vote for policies that make their lives harder, particularly those of women?

If we have to pay traditionally 'low skilled workers' more to attract native people into these vacancies, though it is a sound idea, you will start a wage arms race; the additional costs will be borne by the consumer, thus wiping out the gains made in wages.

I'm all for equality, fairness, levelling up. I think the Tories have treated them regions' with contempt since Thatcher, but Brexit was not lifted aloft upon the wings of desire for a fairer society, it was spawned from the dereliction of the North, wrought via the millionaire media barons and their political puppets into envy and xenophobia, sold as Sovrintee.

This is not the place from where a strong, confident, forward thinking, tolerant and fair society will arise. (A bit like the ideals of the -um, I dunno... EU?)...

So you can shove your 'inconvenience'.

As for 'no one knows the details', well, time to put that old chestnut to bed, eh? Here's 'detail' writ large and it appears a fair few Brexiter grandees don't like what they're reading... 😂

It seems they meant no FOM for the others, not the ones feathering their own nest.

Easy mistake to make.

There is so much conflicting information about this - coming from our own cabinet. Either there are 8.5m people available for work, or the unemployment figures are a lie.

Why is EU labour called cheap? Surely they are paid a minimum wage, so Brits would be paid the same?

If the work is unskilled, then why are we being told that Brits will be trained to do it?

I'm not sure, but I think this government might be full of shit. Just waiting for a journalist somewhere, on prime time TV to actually ask the questions.

Why are the turkeys voting for Thanksgiving?

THANKSGIVING ??? WTF...