Please can leavers please tell me how Brexit will benefit us?

[DaveGrohlsMuse]

Whenever this is asked mid-thread, it's never answered. There's plenty of information out there about how the UK had benefited from membership, but I really struggle to find info on how it's had a negative impact.
So in Jan 2021, once the transition period is over and we actually start to see the impact of the decision, what will improve? How will yours, and mine, and the general population's lives improve?

I also think our own government is lacking in transparency, possibly even corrupt.

But we can vote them out. Too much in the EU goes on behind the scenes, with no accountability.

I highly recommend Yanis Varoufakis' book 'Adults in the Room' about the Greek crisis and the backroom manoeuvrings that went on and the outright lies that were told. Anyone who says we didn't lose any sovereignty by being in the EU should consider how much sovereignty the Greeks had left after the EU had finished with them.

I didn't read it until last year, but when I did I was so, so glad we were leaving.

@Finerumpus I can't work out if your post is serious or not. If it is, then I dispute your claim that remainders fail to "see" these reasons clearly spelled out. I genuinely haven't, hence I'm asking this question.
Accepting that leave has won is quite difficult when I don't know what we are supposed to have won, how it will improve the lives of the residents of our country. Trust me I've heard "leave means leave" enough times for me to think that no-one seems to know what "leave" actually means.

.....a vote therefore some power to change it?

We had no power to change it. That was made crystal clear to David Cameron when they offered him a few crumbs when he went begging before the referendum.

At least one person I know who holds this view was an Irish immigrant in the '60's.

There are more than ten million more people in the UK now than there were in the 1960s. Ten. Million. That's an increase of more than 20%. You don't think that we should at least be asking questions about whether this is sustainable? And should be able to ask without being accused of racism and bigotry? (Yes, Gordon Brown, I'm looking at you!)

It was about nationalism and wanting to go “back” to some imagined golden age. I can’t pretend to understand it op. Still fingers crossed my kids German passports should arrive tomorrow

MarySidney
Is the House of Lords transparent and accountable ?

Zac Goldsmith was voted out by the electorate
but appointed back into government through the House of Lords
is that democratic?

Who elected Dominic Cummings?

Is the House of Lords transparent and accountable ?

The House of Commons has the power to override the House of Lords.

Who elected Dominic Cummings?

Who elected William Beveridge?

MarySidney
Are you happy that Zac Goldsmith was democratically kicked out by the voters
but brought back in by the Prime Minister?

Are you happy that Nicky Morgan chose not to face the voters
but was brought back in by the Prime Minister?

How can the UK challenge the democracy of other organisations
when we have religious "leaders" in our legislature ?

Let alone those who have achieved nothing in life but be born with a title ?

MarySidney

IAnd yet Varoufakis - a massive critic of the EU - has said more than once, we should stay and help reform, rather than leave.

The Greek example is always a poor one.

The Greeks had the option to default on their national debt, they chose not to do this because things would have been even worse. Varoufakis essentially proposed writing off the Greek debt and and allowing them to keep borrowing at the same rate as before.

Without EU countries taking a 50 percent "haircut" on what the Greeks owed them then the situation would have been far worse as well.

Essentially the Greeks got themselves into the situation, and they were bailed out by the EU/ECB and IMF (everyone forgets about the IMF).

It was about nationalism and wanting to go “back” to some imagined golden age.

Yes, apparently for many. And so much claptrap about the war and the perception of getting one over on Germany. My parents and all my uncles fought in that war. I don't know for sure how they'd have voted if still alive but I know the kind of people they were, and they hated nationalism so I can take an educated guess they'd have voted remain if only as a V sign to Farage and his ilk.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uHM4tLLCafs
I watched this last evening, I found it very well presented.

We joined the common market then we had Maastricht and Lisbon,no referendum on that.We need reforms and we couldn't get them when we were in with a vote.
So now we're trying another way not worse just different.
No one has a crystal ball to tell what would have happened if we'd stayed.
Leave voters tell you again and again why but you don't hear.
Many remainders voted because they wanted to keep things as they are,no big analysis needed and that is ok because everyone,young,poor,educated,experienced etc had a vote.The people I respect are thosesd that used it no matter what they chose.
And honestly if you haven't read anything from leavers in the last 4years you never will,and things have moved on.We are looking to see how much of a pig's ear our MPs can make of the transition negotiations.

@MarySidney your comment about William Beverage shows that the civil service plays an important role, surely. It would be impossible for the entire civil service to be democratically voted in.

David Cameron was asking for the UK to be treated differently ie more favourably than the other EU states. He did get some concessions,but why would we deserve any at all, really?

Vourafakis isn't the man to quote when you're looking for an argument in favour of Brexit.

www.fnlondon.com/articles/yanis-varoufakis-i-am-not-boris-johnson-20190828

Suggesting that the population increase isn't sustainable is a flawed appeal to common sense but fails on a number of factual points.

There are more non EU immigrants than EU. Non EU net migration is higher than EU (more likely to stay permanently)

EU migrants are net contributors and a falling level of EU immigration results in lower tax revenue with no corresponding fall in demand for services

I didn’t vote for something.

I voted against the EU.

For a myriad of reasons.

Geralt - that is such a ridiculously nuanced answer that it is almost impossible to relate to the Facebook clips and MSM responses out there. To actually pretend that most people had, or wanted, the deep understanding of the UK /EU relationship that your post assumes is dangerous and patronising.

Surely if there are issues with the EU it's better to be at the table? The last lot of Brexit MEPs just went there to frustrate the process. Farage is famous for not turning up to anything and now will get a nice pension. We still need the EU to trade with and we will have to have a certain amount of alignment to do so whatever Boris might say. Otherwise it's economic suicide. Fair enough should the EU collapse in the future, we would all have been in the same boat anyhow. And if it does, the knock on will still affect us even if we are not a member. The anti-democratic argument is just ridiculous. We have lost a lot and gained nothing at all.

Not having to pay £17 billion a year to be allowed to trade with them.Not part of an undemocratic organisation.Not part of an organisation that will implode when the effects of the Euro get unbearable for the southern european states.
Remember,"United we stand,divided we fall",that is why we have not got a good "transition" deal because they could see the divisions here,Stop whinging and get behind our negotiators.
Hopefully,an end to unlimited immigration for which wwe cannot plan housing,infrastructure,schools etc etc.How can plans be made if the planners have no idea what the population will be in 1,5,10 years time?
In any case,this small island is full.Anyone who doubts that should try driving to work every day.

So many rote learned counterfactual reasons in class's post its funny.

If the EU implodes then it will take the UK economy and the world economy with it.

When I say I don't understand Leavers reasons, I don't mean literally. For example, a family member wants to leave because Spain are still using banned pesticides. What I don't understand is why he thinks Brexit will change that.

In any case,this small island is full.Anyone who doubts that should try driving to work every day.
In much of the country there are so few people that public transport is uneconomic.
If you live in one of the crowded bits, use public transport.
You are the problem
Brexit is not the solution

The Netherlands and Belgium have a population density about 25% higher than the UK. Most of the UK is not built on. The problem with the infrastructure is more cars and lack of investment. Particularly in public transport.

There's much the UK could learn from other countries in terms of "controlling" population. Actually having a record of the people would be a start. In other countries you have to prove where you live, that you have legitimate access to healthcare and education etc. If you move from elsewhere you have to show you have an address and a job etc. If a council has a regularly updated record of eg the number of families living in an area they can make plans much more easily. The census is totally outdated in this digital age. People move more often. Families break down etc etc. There is so much that COULD be done to improve things if anyone actually bothered. Instead of just blaming the EU all the time.

@Finerumpus you still haven't answered the question.

"This small island is full"

No it really isn't.

Oh and most, if not all, urban areas with dense populations, voted remain.