Brexit - the Good, the Bad and hopefully not the Ugly

[Bearbehind]

Following on the thread about how we will measure the successes or failures of Brexit, I’m just leaving this one here for people to record the successes and failures as they occur / as they see them

All welcome if you discuss the subject of the thread - this isn’t a thread for moaning about the fact Brexit is happening! 😁

Unemployment has reduced, though classing someone who works an hour a week as being "employed" is arguable, wages still lower than in 2008.
We are heading for more uncertainty as Johnson has said he will not extend the negotiating period, so further brinkmanship! more warehousing abroad and moving distribution centres to the continent.
We also need to focus far more on the effect of brexit on services - 80% of our economy.

The great thing about democracy is that we have now reached a point where there is a general acceptance that voters will be lied to and the liars will escape censure.
The great thing about democracy is that things like the Russia Report can be brushed under the carpet.
What happy days for democracy!

Stop deflecting mystery. Defining democracy through brexit alone is disingenuous. It is my democratic right to continue to argue that brexit is a mistake.

Aw... bless. Mystery believes the government's spin unemployment statistics!

It is my democratic right to continue to argue that brexit is a mistake

Why are you bothered if have EU passport, Brexit proof job and can afford the price rises you have forecast?

Aw... bless. Mystery believes the government's spin unemployment statistics

Aw bless 16.1 million remainers for believing up to 800,000 jobs would be lost.

Because I live in the UK mystery and have a democratic stake in what unfolds.

Because I live in the UK mystery and have a democratic stake in what unfolds

That’s not consistent with boasts like;

I have an EU passport
I have a Brexit proof job
I can afford price rises

Mystery You are just deflecting constantly, not just now and again.....

Mystery You are just deflecting constantly, not just now and again

Pointing out flaws in posts and correcting misquotes more like.

A Good - Healthcare students, not just nurses, will get a £5k bounty, hopefully there wont be cuts in mtce grant?

Bad Jeremy Hunt said yesterday that year after year he gave more money to avert winter crisis, only for that money to go to agencies, still had the crisis... money wasted, he says there is a fundamental lack of capacity, beds, Dr's Nurses, poor community care.

So will the billions going into the NHS address any of this? Especially as 1000s of EU healthcare staff have left the UK and aren't coming here.... maybe thats an Ugly?

I can have a democratic stake in the UK and possess an EU passport, brexit proof job. See what the leave vote has done? Created different tiers of citizens based on individual capital. If you hated the inequalities of the class system you will despise the post brexit tiering system.

The uncertainty is caused by firms not knowing what the terms of leaving will be. There was no "failure to respect democracy".

There wasn't a reduction in employment when may signed article 50 because there had been a long gap between the referendum and the declaration. This meant firms had time to put contingency plans in place that they wouldn't have had if Cameron had declared first day.

Its ironic Mystery that you are discussing the problems of risk. Incorrect blame for the source of the risk too.

Unemployment has reduced, though classing someone who works an hour a week as being "employed" is arguable

Has to be a definition at some point. Quoting employment figures, instead of unemployment figures, would be a better indicator, but has never been done.

wages still lower than in 2008

That’s due to Austerity imposed upon UK due to previous labour governments reckless spending and financial crash in 2007.

We are heading for more uncertainty as Johnson has said he will not extend the negotiating period, so further brinkmanship! more warehousing abroad and moving distribution centres to the continent

Is a defined cut off not better than an undefined cut off?

We also need to focus far more on the effect of brexit on services - 80% of our economy

Service industry requires only office space and telecommunications. So very easy to relocate.

I can have a democratic stake in the UK and possess an EU passport, brexit proof job. See what the leave vote has done? Created different tiers of citizens based on individual capital. If you hated the inequalities of the class system you will despise the post brexit tiering system

^
This. I too, am in the same position.

Reckless spending? What's your thoughts on the billions squandered over the last 4 years mystery? Or do the Tories get a free pass again?

The uncertainty is caused by firms not knowing what the terms of leaving will be

Article 50 states that the future relationship between the leaving member and EU is to be done at the same time as the withdrawal agreement. That did not happen as EU moved the goalposts and said UK must first leave the EU before future relationship can be discussed. Hence EU created the uncertainty to which you refer.

Success: I will keep my job for ever probably as I work in homelessness!

Failure- the birth of the New IRA
Failure- the murder of Jo Cox by a man shouting 'Britain First' (huge supporters of Brexit).
Failure - rise in racially motivated hate crimes (I think we might have had that one?)

What's your thoughts on the billions squandered over the last 4 years mystery

If you can provide some examples I may be able to comment.

Oh dear, austerity is because of reckless Labour overspending?

So how did Labour overspend in almost every other advanced country in the world who also had increasing deficits at the same time ( nebermind that in 13 years Labour ran 3 surpluses and until 2008 the deficit was lower than under the tories had managed in most of the 80s and 90s).

Article 50 says that the terms of leaving must he agreed first before the future relationship can be discussed. There was no moving of the goal posts.

You don't think implementing brexit has cost money? All those civil servants in the brexit dept work for free?

Article 50 says that the terms of leaving must he agreed first before the future relationship can be discussed. There was no moving of the goal posts

Article 50 reads:

Article 50 Treaty on European Union (TEU)

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

1. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

1. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph2, unlessthe European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

1. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it. A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. 5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

Where in Sub Article 2 does it say that withdrawal is first and future relationship is second?

You don't think implementing brexit has cost money

Implementation of any change in direction will have costs. Bit like moving house. Legal fees, removal, commissions to estate agents, stamp duty, etc.

As the vote was to leave the EU the government is obliged to implement the vote. No point in referendums and elections if government can pick which to follow and which to ignore.

The "future relationship" does not mean a trade deal, it means on what terms are they leaving, still in the CU etc. It does not mean the terms of a trade deal. A trade deal can only be arranged when a country had left and the terms of that leaving defined.

The EU is a rules based organisation, if it was not following the terms of the treaty the UK could have appealed to the ECJ.