How will we measure Brexit’s success or failure?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve been pondering this for ages now

In any ‘normal’ project you’d have targets, objectives, deadlines, reviews etc but for Brexit beyond 2 deadlines of 31/1/20 and 31/12/20 there’s nothing

People talk about politicians being accountable now but what do we expect them to deliver and by when

FPTP is archaic.
What you mean is that only losers highlight that fact.
There was a referendum on AV for HoC elections in 2011. Turnout was 42% and 67.9% voted against AV. Who knows what the result would have been if PR had been on offer.

A remarkable proportion of the UK population seems quite happy with archaism, as evidenced by various aspects of life there.

"there"? Where are you? If you aren't in the UK and don't have the right to vote in UK elections, don't see how your observation matters.

A remarkable proportion of the UK population seems quite happy with archaism, as evidenced by various aspects of life there

UK has always been a conservative country and resistant to change. Hence vote to leave the EU was a surprise.

It is archaic whether you like it or not.

With the referendum of AV, enough people believed the Daily Fuckwit bullshit about "strong government" and so voted against.

It just goes to show, you may not be able to fool all the people all the time, but you can certainly fool enough of the to get a majority pretty much all the time.

More "people are stupid " stuff. Seriously. That's why we (Remain/non-Corbyn Labour) lost. You need to find something better or we will keep losing.
And the Tories will keep winning.

but you can certainly fool enough of the to get a majority pretty much all the time

Do you apply that logic when the majority votes the way you agree with?

Brexit is leaving the EU. That was the goal. That seems to be a success.

The consequences good or bad is a separate matter. Whether or not Brexit has been good or bad for us as a nation is different to whether Brexit itself has been successful.

Thinking every voter is fully informed on every highly complex political issue is surely, err, stupid.

It makes me sick to my stomach to find myself in agreement with Brexiteers and Tories .
And no, nobody but nerdy politicos and spin doctors know everything about every subject in politics. But we are in a democracy. Flawed. Ungainly. A bit shit very often. But if you can't accept the result of a UK general election, I'm not sure you are a democrat.

Thinking every voter is fully informed on every highly complex political issue is surely, err, stupid

Tony Blair thought otherwise and stated that there should not be a referendum as people are not able to understand. However, Labour government at the time when UK joined the EU was happy to have a referendum and take on board voters' views.

Do you apply that logic when the majority votes the way you agree with?

If there was ever a vote that went the way I thought it should, I would be relieved more than anything...

bellini
I'm in France. Thought you knew that.
I am a UK citizen.
I don't see how where I live, where I come from or my right to vote affect my right to observe that entire aspects of UK life are archaic. The two are utterly unrelated. You don't need to be able to vote in the UK to note that its monarchy is well past its best before date. Or to post here, for that matter.

As plenty of our Far East posters can testify.

You said "there" AuldAlliance . It's not "there " for me. Or some "other place".** This "othering " of people who disagree with us is one of the reasons we are in this mess.
Yes I agree here has an archaic electoral system.

Nice comparison, thanks.

It's "there" for me because I am currently elsewhere. Other than lying or mangling the language, I have no choice but to "other" it, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.
I can't quite see how my referring accurately to my home country as "there" when I am physically elsewhere is related to the mess it is currently in. Scape that goat, though...

Delighted we agree the monarchy is outdated.

Delighted we agree the monarchy is outdated

Very outdated, but apparently profitable in terms of tourism relative to the cost?

You must realise that most people on here are "here" and not "there". And you must know that one of the reasons we are in this mess here is because the majority who voted think that their previous natural defenders see them as "other". To be told how to think.

If you don't know what "othering" means, you might like to research it.
Here's Webster's dictionary online explanation of the term: to treat that culture as fundamentally different from another class of individuals, often by emphasizing its apartness.

Where are you? If you aren't in the UK and don't have the right to vote in UK elections, don't see how your observation matters.
So you don't think British citizens who have had their lives turned upside down even have a right to an opinion now, nevermind a vote. Nice.

Oh ffs. I have spent the last fucking year explaining on here that British citizens in the EU need to be considered and protected. Wind your bloody neck in. What I was saying was that if you don't actually live here, I'm not sure you can slag off our electoral system as if it is the worst of the worst. Other EU countries' electoral systems are also flawed.

If AuldAlliance has the right to vote in our elections then obviously she has a valid view. Forgive me for not knowing that she is entitled to vote here given that she referred to here as there. We have had plenty in here pontificating from afar.

So you are saying exactly what I said - that we can't even express an opinion.

If you don't have the right to vote here @smemorata , you can say what you like about our electoral system but it automatically carries less weight than the opinion of someone who can.

This isn't a polling booth, it's a discussion forum. It doesn't matter who has a right to vote so not sure why you're policing it?