How will we measure Brexit’s success or failure?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve been pondering this for ages now

In any ‘normal’ project you’d have targets, objectives, deadlines, reviews etc but for Brexit beyond 2 deadlines of 31/1/20 and 31/12/20 there’s nothing

People talk about politicians being accountable now but what do we expect them to deliver and by when

15.8m people voted for Remain/2nd ref supporting parties, 14m voted for the Tories and due to our FPTP voting system, they won a huge majority of the seats.

So, i don't agree a huge majority voted to get "brexit done" its just down to where those voters happened to live.

People aren't as stupid as you seem to think they are. Even the current Labour leadership candidates admit the last election campaign was a fuck up. Telling people they were conned doesn't have a very good history. They need to own their failure not blame it on the meejah.

jas and ghost could you please stop repeating the same old things

The Tories won

Brexit is happening

The fact you don’t like it is neither here nor there now

In my constituency - a previously very very safe Labour seat- the only reason Labour scraped through was because the anti-Labour vote was split between the Tories and the Brexit Party .

The problem is I've heard plenty of things said about the EU that are uninformed nonsense. I've also heard plenty of people regurgitate tabloid nonsense. Suggesting the media hold no influence over the public is ill-informed.If people don't like this tough, they'll never truly learn anything.

By all means keep fighting and keep hating the Tories (not that you need my permission) but accept result of the GE. You need to fight back in a different way. With new points. Not tired old ones that failed to make people vote differently. Only recently.

But it doesn't affect you MysteryTripAgain . You live in the Far East

Not any more.

Who is "they"? And who are you to say you know better?

The Tories won in a lot of places because The Brexit Party siphoned off some Labour votes and other Labour voters stayed at home.

This has only ever been a Tory Brexit; conceived and enacted by Cameron and then botched by May, and who knows what Johnson will do, but the omens aren't promising. As a Lexiter, it was one which suited Corbyn but it's still Tory.

You need to fight back in a different way. With new points. Not tired old ones that failed to make people vote differently. Only recently.

Exactly this

When activists start telling me, a grown woman in her fifties, that they know better than me and that I don't know what's good for me, I'm inclined to tell them to feck off.

15.8m people voted for Remain/2nd ref supporting parties

Where does that data come from? You have assumed that everyone who voted conservative was a leave supporter and everyone who did not vote conservative was a remain supporter.

My parents voted labour by tradition (mining village), but are leave supporters.

Remember it is estimated that 5 million who voted labour in 2017 also voted leave in 2016.

Was labour a leave or remain party?

I'm not particularly bothered because I'll largely be protected from the brexit fall out.

Watching the fall out will be fascinating though.

The Tories won in a lot of places because The Brexit Party siphoned off some Labour votes and other Labour voters stayed at home.

And in my town, Labour only won because the Brexit vote ended up being split between Tory and Brexit party who together won more votes than Labour. Had the Brexit party not put up a candidate, the Tories would have won the seat.

See, it works both ways!

Mine too @Kazzyhoward

15.8m people voted for Remain/2nd ref supporting parties

Mystery, are you hard of thinking? "Remain/2nd ref supporting parties" - They don't state whether they preferred Remain or Leave, only which party they voted for.

@LouiseCollins28

The issue is that we can't even decide what is a good or bad outcome.

You say self directed immigration and laws are good, I'd say limiting free movement and moving away from the workers rights that the eu brought us is bad.

The only thing that is unarguable is finances and maybe employment (although how you'd attribute any change to Brexit or other factors is debatable).

Once we've made back the 435,000 jobs and £82,314,858,000 lost so far, I'll be happy to start measuring the benefits should they materialise.

When activists start telling me, a grown woman in her fifties, that they know better than me and that I don't know what's good for me, I'm inclined to tell them to feck off

That’s what leave supporters did since 2016 in response to the remainers continued statements of;

You were lied to

You are stupid

Etc

There was a higher than normal turnout in my constituency. Fewer people stayed at home. Labour got lucky because of Faridge's hubris. And the MP knows it. He's acknowledged it.

Mystery, are you hard of thinking? "Remain/2nd ref supporting parties" - They don't state whether they preferred Remain or Leave, only which party they voted for

So why is Jas trying to argue that get Brexit done did not have a majority?

You have assumed that everyone who voted conservative was a leave supporter and everyone who did not vote conservative was a remain supporter.

This is taking the statements said in the Manifestos and then counting the number of people who voted for those parties. Which isn't a difficult idea to get to grips with. It doesn't tell you who held their noses to vote for which party or what else they were voting for.

Because it didn't - in terms of votes. It did in terms of seats because of our archaic electoral system...

This is taking the statements said in the Manifestos and then counting the number of people who voted for those parties

So was Labour a leave or remain party?

They were a second referendum party. Did you not bother to read anything?

It did in terms of seats because of our archaic electoral system

Only archaic for losers. After Labours win of 418 seats in 1997 with 43% of the vote did they campaign in subsequent elections to change the system?