How will we measure Brexit’s success or failure?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve been pondering this for ages now

In any ‘normal’ project you’d have targets, objectives, deadlines, reviews etc but for Brexit beyond 2 deadlines of 31/1/20 and 31/12/20 there’s nothing

People talk about politicians being accountable now but what do we expect them to deliver and by when

My point is there was never a plan for brexit it will always be a bad idea to remainers and a loss whatever brexit ends up being. Since leavers wanted different things from brexit you'd have to ask them individually what winning looks like. That will vary from simply leaving to mass regeneration of depriv

I'd see an independent scotland and united Ireland as successes but I'd file that with unintended consequences rather than brexit success/failure.

Mass regeneration of deprived areas that should have said.

Going off your OP but Johnson ended up with a - 45 seat minority govt, those last 4 months of last year were a heaven sent opportunity to defeat the tories and put in an interim govt, Johnson was so fearful of that he prorogued (illegally as it turned out) parliament.

Corbyn was the biggest facilitator of Brexit the Tories ever had pus the MSM of course.

Moving forward, Johnson needs to flesh out his manifesto, so far, he has pledged to give healthcare students £5k but his biggest decisions are yet to come....... Social care, inequality, HS2, FTA's with EU and the USA and how he intends to position the relatively small UK among the world's biggest economies.

So, there you go, a few parameters on which to judge the tories and their flagship policy :)

Are you being deliberately disingenuous? Pretty much any result other that a strong Tory majority would have given an opportunity to stop the madness.

Pretty much any result other that a strong Tory majority would have given an opportunity to stop the madness.

No it wouldn’t because the result of the referendum still stood but no one would have had a mandate to achieve anything, as demonstrated over the previous 3 years

The only alternative to a Tory government and Brexit would have been an opposition who stood on a firmly Remain platform and didn’t fuck up their chances of getting a majority by having utterly ridiculous economic policies alongside that

We didn’t have that option, hence our current situation

My point is there was never a plan for brexit it will always be a bad idea to remainers and a loss whatever brexit ends up being.

But that wasn’t and isn’t what the thread is about and it’s also been said a million times

Social care, inequality, HS2, FTA's with EU and the USA and how he intends to position the relatively small UK among the world's biggest economies.

I agree the last 2 will be telling indicators but the first 3 have nothing to do with Brexit

mmmmmmmm i will judge the Johnson govt not only on brexit but on whether thhe can deliver across a range of policies.

It can also be argued that as we lose access to many skilled and semi skilled healthcare workers and other skilled employee's across many sectors, Brexit will affect other areas of our lives not directly associated with exiting the EU.

"Pretty much any result other that a strong Tory majority would have given an opportunity to stop the madness."

I couldn't disagree with this more. The most likely second possibility to a Tory victory was another hung parliament with more of the same madness. A clear majority for Corbyn was even less likely but if that had happened, that would have been a whole new set of madness. His shadow Cabinet showed the quality of government we would have got. The new leader candidates are trying so hard to position themselves away from that unelectable, undeliverable stuff, I'm surprised they haven't sprained themselves.
I'm a lifelong Labour voter in my fifties and I spoiled my ballot. I even voted for Michael Foot back in the day so doing so was not easy.

Bloody hell bellini - we agree! 😂😂😂😂

mmmmmmmm i will judge the Johnson govt not only on brexit but on whether thhe can deliver across a range of policies

But this isn’t a thread about judging the Tory government despite your repeated attempts to make it so

Bear, I think we agree on quite a lot. The fact we argue so much shows we don't take perceived shit from anyone. Even people we often agree with.
Thanks for your support on vermingate, btw.

So the government are completely detached from any responsibility for brexit, how convenient. Especially only when the government can determine whether it is a success or failure.

So the government are completely detached from any responsibility for brexit, how convenient. Especially only when the government can determine whether it is a success or failure.

FFS, I have to assume you’re just being deliberately obtuse now

I haven’t said that at all - the thread is about Brexit, not every other Tory policy

Please post elsewhere if you are just going to twist everything to suit your agenda

"only when the government can determine whether it is a success or failure."
we are leaving the EU not control of our senses. It's not just the government that gets to say if success or not.

The only Tory policy I have mentioned is brexit. No others. Seeking to disassociate the government from something it will have to implement is ridiculous.

I think leave voters expected they'd get community and prosperity as a result of voting leave. I don't think they'll get either.

What about joining the EU in the first place. But, wait, we never got a say in that did we? It just happened by stealth over a few decades.

Far from it, we have had numerous elections over the years, where it's been part of the parties manifestos. If people can't be bothered to vote that's their problem.

Now that Johnson has got the truncated remains of the Tory party back in, 'getting Brexit done' has meant that the media has been told not to report it. His only policy has been one of getting Big Ben to Bong, which won't be happening.

We have yet to see any White Papers on how he will improve the Health Service, or detailed plans for Northern Rail.

How would we measure success - over the next few years we would need to see Britain prospering, and doing better than our European neighbours.

I think leave voters expected they'd get community and prosperity as a result of voting leave. I don't think they'll get either

The outcome affects everyone regardless of the outcome.

But it doesn't affect you MysteryTripAgain . You live in the Far East.

Who voted for the government @GhostofFrankGrimes ?

Not me.

But this isn’t a thread about judging the Tory government despite your repeated attempts to make it so

Thought you were going to try and be a little more civil? part of which is to learn to let go......

You have only quoted the first part of my post..... the second part says that Brexit will affect range of seemingly unrelated issues....Adult Social Care will be one.... to solve this issue requires staff, EU workers are leaving the social care sector/UK and the NHS. Any new immigration policy will take a long time to take effect plus given the rather right wing stance of this govt on immigration, who will come here?
Our own citizens do not want to work in this sector nor are many even suitable.
Surely you can see this?

Not me either @GhostofFrankGrimes , but the overwhelming majority of other people did. And this was due in no small part to having no feasible alternative. Why do you think the result was so massively in the Tories favour when the referendum result was so close? Most Remain voters haven't become Leavers.
Most people didn't "become Tories". Most people concluded that we need the next chapter of shit whatever it is. And we will judge whoever wins the election on how well they deal with it.
And the op has asked what sort of things will make it look like a success.
This was never a Tory Brexit. Ever.

Of course it's a Tory brexit. They thought it up and are now presiding over it. "There was no alternative" is a lazy, uninformed tabloid nonsense. Alot of people never want to hear about brexit again and genuinely believe that after January they wont have to. This is as naive as thinking sovereignty was lost.

If people voted for the next chapter of shit then it leads to the conclusion that brexit isn't going to be very good doesnt it?. 4 years and no sunlit uplands.

The reality is brexit news will get brushed under the carpet and negative impacts blamed on another scapegoat. Thatchers negative policies in the 80s ended up getting pinned on the EU. History is repeating. Nothing will ever be the Tories fault which probably explains why the op is so keen to stop any mention of them here.