How will we measure Brexit’s success or failure?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve been pondering this for ages now

In any ‘normal’ project you’d have targets, objectives, deadlines, reviews etc but for Brexit beyond 2 deadlines of 31/1/20 and 31/12/20 there’s nothing

People talk about politicians being accountable now but what do we expect them to deliver and by when

What they now know is that there is more to leaving than cutting up your membership card

Many obviously think otherwise. Johnson would not have got a majority victory if everyone thought Brexit is an bad idea.

If they think leaving is merely cutting up a membership card then they haven't been paying attention for the last 4 years.

I think your showing some degree of favouritism here Bear, Bellini suggested that No deal will be back on the table (in december) and it passed without the Wroth of Bear! unlike when i suggested it!!

I said I thought it was a bluff previously and will think the same if it comes up again - what did you want me to say?

Bear, I'm entitled to my opinion

So are those who voted leave.

Stamping your feet demanding everyone now falls into line wont work

Losers consent = Democracy

Pissing myself at the notion that Bear is showing me favouritism. Been rowing about Brexit for months.

I'm not stopping brexit mystery I'm waiting for the winners to take ownership. Time to use that democratic mandate.

Don't start threads that ask questions without answers that result in discussion maybe?

listening forgive me if I’m wrong but I don’t think you’ve made any attempt to answer the OP, preferring instead to rant about all the stupid people who chose Brexit and about how superior your knowledge is

If they think leaving is merely cutting up a membership card then they haven't been paying attention for the last 4 years

Does the law stare that people who voted leave in 2016 is invalid and Brexit must be cancelled if they have not not changed their minds after listening to those who voted remain?

No is the answer

Stamping your feet demanding everyone now falls into line wont work.

I think you need to take your own advice ghost

You’re the one trying to convince others they are wrong

I’m just asking you to leave this thread and do it elsewhere if you insist it is necessary, because it’s not welcome here

As an individual difficult. But there are more people who think Brexit has upsides than those who think it has downsides.

And that is super for all those people, but how do all those people thinking Brexit has upsides turn into Brexit actually having upsides ?

Answer : they can't , this is absolutely and entirely down to the Government now. They alone are responsible for what happens next. They started it and now they need to deliver every promise made to all those people.

Why don't you address the point mystery rather than asking another question. Brexit is far more complex than alot of people envisaged. If they want to believe brexit is done next week, good for them, doesn't make it true.

Pissing myself at the notion that Bear is showing me favouritism. Been rowing about Brexit for months.

It is funny! 😂

I'm not stopping brexit mystery I'm waiting for the winners to take ownership

With the intent of achieving what?

Did labour voters take ownership after the previous labour government from 1997 to 2010 financially wrecked the UK and opened the immigration floodgates?

Yes, by you and your fellow WM crew who just want to rant about the Tories and the ‘silly’ Leave voters

You are like a dog with fucking bone aren't you? and you don't read what has been written either!!!

Brexit is shit, the people who voted for it by and large did not know what they were voting for

Stating the obvious doesn't make the person saying it arrogant. Its perhaps rather arrogant to think that you are capable of making complex decisions on things you know absolutely nothing about?

Leaving the EU is a highly complex issue, way beyond the vast majority in the country to decide on......unless your an international economist or a Government trade negotiator

Likewise, deciding on whether brexit is a success or not is equally problematic, General speaking, leavers (unless they are revisionist remainers like bear) won't accept their project has failed and Remainers (as can be seen on this thread and i inc myself in this) are highly unlikely ever to admit they were wrong either.

You are like a dog with fucking bone aren't you? and you don't read what has been written either!!!

PMSL - it’s not me who’s on a thread with their own agenda whilst pretty much ignoring the OP, unlike many on here

I'm not trying to convince anyone bear.

Mystery, Labour voters don't need to take responsibility for a global financial crash that started outside the UK.

Stating the obvious doesn't make the person saying it arrogant

Of course it does in the instance you’ve quoted

Many Leavers didn’t have any expectations other than simply leaving

It’s unbelievably arrogant to insist you know better than them when your expectations are entirely different

Maybe the answer to the original OP is in the differences (and divisiveness) of opinion. Everyone will measure it differently.....
For many the loss of opportunity and wealth (overseas pensions) mean that it will never be viewed as a success.

Those that never aspired to travel/live overseas ..... loss of opportunity doesn't matter two hoots. Just being able to say that we are no longer in the European Union.

For the billionaires/millionaires that finances it - English ones - avoiding new EU tax laws- success....
For the Russian billionaires - keeping their master (Putin) happy ( so they get to stay alive and keep their money) ...... Putin gets a less stable Europe......

There are many players in this, their viewpoint all different, so everyone measures success differently

Brexit is far more complex than alot of people envisaged

What’s complicated about the question Leave or Remain. A simple binary choice.

The suggestion that is hugely complicated was just a way of trying to stall UK departure form the EU long enough in the hole that it would be forgotten about.

If they want to believe brexit is done next week, good for them, doesn't make it true

Can’t remember leave campaign saying Brexit would take a week to complete.

There are many players in this, their viewpoint all different, so everyone measures success differently

I think this is exactly right - I said similar on the pub thread earlier

The problem was a binary choice with no plan in the event of a leave vote.

Deciding whether to stay in your house or move is a binary choice until you decide to sell. Then you have the complexities of time, money, legalities etc

Like i said you don't read what has been written, nowhere did i say i knew best....

You stating that leavers expectation was just to leave, proves my point... Leaving the EU cannot be boiled down to "i expect to leave the EU"

Might as well state that a heart transplant surgeon "swaps hearts"

I have tried engaging with your OP, you have not reciprocated because you like an argument, prob why you start so many threads.

Mystery, Labour voters don't need to take responsibility for a global financial crash that started outside the UK

Labour opened the immigration floodgates in 2004 long before the financial crash.

Uncontrolled immigration saw the emergence of UKIP and their campaign to leave the EU. Cameron wobbled as he thought he would loose seats and hence guaranteed a referendum if he was elected again. He arrogantly assumes that UKIP had not swayed anyone to leave the EU, but was wrong.

Had labour not allowed immigration to get out of hand there may never have been a referendum.

The problem was a binary choice with no plan in the event of a leave vote

Because Cameron the peasants would not dare have an opinion that was different to his own. Hence never bothered to make a plan.