How will we measure Brexit’s success or failure?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve been pondering this for ages now

In any ‘normal’ project you’d have targets, objectives, deadlines, reviews etc but for Brexit beyond 2 deadlines of 31/1/20 and 31/12/20 there’s nothing

People talk about politicians being accountable now but what do we expect them to deliver and by when

Plus, for the majority it’s not even necessary for it to be free

Yes, that's what I said. Low salience.

Compared to Brexit, free broadband is cheap and deliverable (relatively), but it wasn't very relevant or exciting for voters especially in the groups most likely to turn out.

(Personally I thought it was a stupid policy).

Seriously listening please leave this thread or understand that I’m just going to ignore you from now on

Your constant harping on about ‘not accepting’ Brexit is tedious and it’s your problem, not mine

I'm not asking you to accept Brexit. I'm asking you to say something more constructive than " Brexit is shit and the people who voted for it didn't know what they were doing."
All those things may be true but that ship has sailed.

Mystery
Which bit of A50 did the EU breach?
wording here
www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

Implementing brexit has cost billions

Correct. Because those who wouldn’t accept the 2016 referendum result tired to thwart Brexit completely. That created uncertainty which had a negative impact on businesses and markets. Had UK left the EU as planned in 29 March 2019 the implementation cost would have been less.

The more I read the comments of the WM thread regulars on here the more obvious it becomes to me why some people voted Leave in the first place

I might not agree with that choice but I can understand how constantly being told your opinion is wrong and they are much cleverer than you will ultimately piss you right off

The fact they think harping on about it even now is going to make the slightest difference is just a measure of the delusion at play

Which bit of A50 did the EU breach? wording here

Article 2.

If you look at the briefing note issued by EU in January 2017 you will see how the process was changed.

Mystery, you forget that May lost her majority in a pointless election. The country was split, parliament was split That's democracy.

Also, having no plan the day after the referendum may have stalled things. Just a thought.

To be fair Bear I think if you start this thread again once the Government has come up with some sort of plan, it would be a lot easier to answer your initial question. As it currently stands there doesn't appear to be one other than a spot of sabre rattling.
I think the next interesting stage will be when the EU Parliament votes to ratify the WA, I am 99.9% positive that they will all vote it through, but Brexit has thrown up so many odd tangents its difficult to be absolutely sure.
I think living in the UK it is sometimes easy to forget that there are another 27 countries and all their MEP's involved in the process. The EU members have also done a lot of work around no deal planning, they are ready for that scenario, even if it isn't their preferred one.

That’s probably very true frumpety

There were too many lies told in 2016.the UK needed the opportunity to have a confirmatory referendum but those who voted tory in December ensured that never happened and for that I despise them.

I've joined the SNP. Scotland needs to leave the shit show that is tory England.

I'm asking you to say something more constructive than " Brexit is shit and the people who voted for it didn't know what they were doing."

Why do you want to police what other people say?

Brexit is shit, the people who voted for it by and large did not know what they were voting for, and they elected a government that doesn't know how it's going to deliver it.

Bear,

Well, if you are serious, it is very hard to measure the success or otherwise of a long term political decision.

The best metrics would be gdp/ capita growth compared to our nearest European neighbours coupled with a quality of living index. This would have to be measured over a decade or so.

Brexit is shit, the people who voted for it by and large did not know what they were voting for, and they elected a government that doesn't know how it's going to deliver it.

FFS 🤔

What do you actually think comments like that are going to achieve?

Do you really think people are going to say ‘OMG you are totally right and I was wrong all along’

Please stop posting crap like that on here - go back to a thread where people welcome those kind of views

Mystery, you forget that May lost her majority in a pointless election

How does that change fact TM is a remain supporter. Losing her majority was very possibly her aim so that Brexit could be thwarted and she as an individual got what she wanted?

The country was split, parliament was split That's democracy

Now Government does have a majority.

Also, having no plan the day after the referendum may have stalled things. Just a thought

Cameron thought the peasants would not dare have an opinion different to his own.

Believing a lie doesn't make you stupid, quite often there is an emotional element which means that you want to believe the lie, you genuinely want it to be true. That emotional element and the wanting it to be true , then makes you less likely to admit that the lie is a lie. You see this all the time in relationships and the shoot the messenger response.

There were too many lies told in 2016

Does that include the treasury forecast that between 500,000 and 800,000 jobs would be lost just by voting to leave before anything happened.

And "accepting" brexit is going to suddenly make remainers think it is a good idea? How do you be constructive about something you feel has no upsides?

Even the posters here who claim to understand leave voters think it is a shit idea. I don't know why these posters are so upset with people (remainers) who are honest about brexit being shit.

Brexit is shit, the people who voted for it by and large did not know what they were voting for

This is the arrogance that Bear is talking about.

Given that brexit was never defined people did not know what they were voting for beyond leaving. What they now know is that there is more to leaving than cutting up your membership card.

I don't know why these posters are so upset with people (remainers) who are honest about brexit being shit.

I’m not upset by it, I’m just really bored of it

You’ve been saying the same shit for years and it has convinced precisely no one, hence the Tories got a whopping majority to do exactly the opposite of what you want

I think your showing some degree of favouritism here Bear, Bellini suggested that No deal will be back on the table (in december) and it passed without the Wroth of Bear! unlike when i suggested it!!

Thread is completely derailed now, shame as it was shaping up to be a rather good one......... after a somewhat shaky start :)

How do you be constructive about something you feel has no upsides?

As an individual difficult. But there are more people who think Brexit has upsides than those who think it has downsides.

Losers consent = democracy

Bear, I'm entitled to my opinion. Stamping your feet demanding everyone now falls into line wont work.

I’m not upset by it, I’m just really bored of it
Don't start threads that ask questions without answers that result in discussion maybe ?