How will we measure Brexit’s success or failure?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve been pondering this for ages now

In any ‘normal’ project you’d have targets, objectives, deadlines, reviews etc but for Brexit beyond 2 deadlines of 31/1/20 and 31/12/20 there’s nothing

People talk about politicians being accountable now but what do we expect them to deliver and by when

@mystery - there is plenty of evidence of the data breaches - that is definitely a fact.

Surely voting for something that makes you poorer would be a shortsighted thing to do

Those that voted leave obviously think they will be better off out of the EU.

Why they thought that at the time is their right to choose.

As has been pointed out, it isn’t a competition but if it were, Brits living in the EU would not win in terms of who is most affected by Brexit

As I said in subsequent posts, Britons in Europe lose more basic rights than any other group, and some are also highly exposed to the economic damage of Brexit.

Here is the list of trade deals the UK has rolled over since Brexit
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
cover 8% of the UK's trade
92% to go .....

including the one with our nearest neighbours and largest trading partners ....

nothing to worry about then

Non-criminal breaches of data laws, if there were any. Breaching data laws is shit but it's not criminal shit apart from very rare circumstances which aren't these.

@mystery - there is plenty of evidence of the data breaches - that is definitely a fact

Innocent until proven guilty. You are accusing people of ignorance. So prove it.

Not that such action would make any difference as choosing to vote in a particular way is not a crime. Freedom of how to vote and those in government delivery the results of a vote is how democracy works.

Yes, people believed they would be better off because that's what the big red bus (amongst other things) insinuated.

Bear,

It is possible that you are right but traders are not known as being gullible idiots and the markets are not discounting the disaster that you are anticipating.

I am curious about whether you demanded metrics about our success joining the EU or agreeing to the various protocols that ‘deepened’ it.

Brexit is POLITICAL, not merely economic. There are a lot of unknown unknowns. Anyone who pretends to know the outcome, one way or the other, is overreaching.

I am curious to know your metrics...

Bellini
But it's what we have to live with. The sooner we face it, and face up to why people voted for it
I fully accept that people voted for a box called Brexit

but as nobody seems to be able to explain what Brexit actually IS
let alone how it will make things better for anybody
I shall remain opposed to it
until I see evidence to the contrary

including the one with our nearest neighbours and largest trading partners

That’s down to the EU not following article 50 correctly. Discussion on UK future relationship was meant to take place at same time as withdrawal agreement, but EU has done it sequentially.

Honestly this is like some weird parallel universe where those who generally frequent the WM threads have come here to vent their anger about Brexit as if it was actually going to make any difference

Of course it doesn't make any difference, just like 99.99% of what is posted on Mumsnet makes no difference to anything in the wider world. It's a forum not a fucking think tank.

Yes, people believed they would be better off because that's what the big red bus (amongst other things) insinuated

People are allowed to believe what they like. Nothing in law that dictates what people shall and shall not believe.

Discussion on UK future relationship was meant to take place at same time as withdrawal agreement, but EU has done it sequentially.
Did the UK parliament and Government ever approach the EU with a clear starting point that the EU rejected ?

The UK Government still cannot decide if it wants to be in or out of the single market

These were the same people who strangely didn't fall for stupid undeliverable promises about free broadband. Was that stupid? Or was that tbe Daily Fail conning them into not believing something.

Has the WM thread closed or something?

Why are so many of you here going over the same old ground you’ve been treading for nearly 4 years?

Up until 12th December last year there was a possibility of changing our direction but the lack of viable alternative put paid to that

You really need to accept that

Or just go back to the WM threads and moan about it indefinitely if it make you feel better but it’s not welcome here

I shall remain opposed to it until I see evidence to the contrary

People don’t have to explain why they choose to vote in a particular way. It’s their right as individuals.

I think people just didn't on the whole care enough about free broadband. Especially the sort of voters that Labour lost.

Getting people to vote for something is about much more than just persuading them that it's deliverable (free broadband is much more deliverable than Brexit, or at least than the Brexit that was promised by the leave campaign). But relatively speaking, free broadband has low salience and low ability to engage voters emotionally, versus deporting Polish plumbers and sticking it to the libs.

I think people just didn't on the whole care enough about free broadband. Especially the sort of voters that Labour lost.

No, people just weren’t stupid enough to think that ‘free broadband for all’ was possible without cutting expenditure elsewhere

Plus, for the majority it’s not even necessary for it to be free

Implementing brexit has cost billions, let's not pretend leaving was the financially savvy choice All with the aim of making the country poorer in the long run.

Or just go back to the WM threads and moan about it indefinitely if it make you feel better but it’s not welcome here
Tell you what Bearbehind

Why don't you answer your own thread title
How WILL we measure the success of Brexit?
nice clear things that will shut us all up

listening I asked the question because I don’t know the answer 🤔

Bear,

But it was not.a real question, was it? Because there is no answer you would accept.

Because there is no answer you would accept.

Of course there is

If there was a list of things we’ve managed as a result of being outside the EU such as diverging laws, taxation or trade agreements then I’d see theses were Brexit achievements

I’ve said before, I may or may not personally agree with them but at least they’d be direct results of leaving

So Bear and Bellini want us to accept Brexit
but cannot tell us what we are meant to be accepting
so we and they cannot know if we have or not

Did the UK parliament and Government ever approach the EU with a clear starting point that the EU rejected

PM at the time, TM, allowed EU to dictate that withdrawal agreement had to be done first before the discussion on future relationship took place. That’s not what Article 50 says shall happen.

Remember that TM is a remain supporter and therefore was happy to go along with what EU wanted.