Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

So did the Tory Party find a sweet spot in Johnson between Hague, Ian Duncan Smith, Howard, Cameron, May?

If he has zero charisma, I think I’ve only heard him in R4, then I don’t know if Labour has anyone who can be a considerable threat to Cons.

I think Red is right.

It's going to be tough.

As I say, I'm skim reading this, but Labour Party all-women shortlists are of course open to anyone.

Starmer certainly doesn't come from a metropolitan elite background and he was at university in Leeds before a year at Oxford.
I also think (sadly) it is about choosing someone who gives the right-wing press as little ammunition as possible to use against potential candidates.
FWIW I voted for Yvette Cooper last time because I thought she would be best at opposing the incumbent.

Yep Miss

I think back to Ed and David and even if they had a similar approach Ed was the one more likely to be annihilated by a bacon sandwich pic.

I really don't think many people outside of well informed bubbles have even heard of Momentum, you know.

Certainly , many of those people who voted Tory in those 'Workington Man' constituencies did not do it because of feelings about Momentum.

Starmer certainly doesn't come from a metropolitan elite background and he was at university in Leeds before a year at Oxford

You know that, I know that. He’ll be perceived as metropolitan elite and perception is all.

Momentum is Labours weakness.

That is the perception the public have.

The RW press have done a very good job and listening to Cat it does seem that the behaviour of some activists can be very intimidating.

That needs to be understood by people who support momentum.

Both sides have to make compromises.

I can't see here or on Twitter that its happening but it's still early days.

It doesn't matter how bloody brilliant the policies are if the public don't beleive you and / are scared of a particular wing of the party.

And I think there is a real danger that a lot of Labour support can be gone for good.

They've voted Labour for the 1st time ever. That break from tradition now has happened. They will not have the same battles internally again.

If Labour doesn't fix this and fix it soon there is a good chance they will never get their traditional voters back again.

get their traditional voters back again.

Are we talking pre Blair traditional or post Blair traditional?

Starmer certainly doesn't come from a metropolitan elite background and he was at university in Leeds before a year at Oxford.

Errrr.... Leeds University is pretty elite. And pretty metropolitan.

They might not have heard of Momentum but that doesn't stop people being put off Labour because of Momentum

I don't bloody care!

I want them to band their heads together to win an election with policies that are for the good of the country but where books can be balanced too.

And that message needs to be convincing and believed.

Second guessing the right identity should be surpassed by talking to the people who are important.

Because there’s no point in matching the identity criteria if the media will destroy them on some superficial weakness. Like how they look etc

Clem Attlee of sainted memory was pretty charisma-free. He left that to several of his cabinet.

And unlike Clem, Starmer is from working-class stock. He is the personification of upward mobility made good through hard work and talent.

His main drawbacks in the current mood are his accent and his sex.

Starmer would chop BJ up and then chop up the bits, but faced with a strong and eloquent woman, BJ would chop himself up with the inevitable inappropriate remarks.

Hmmm. I am really not sure about that.

I thin the 'southern softies' thing might be a factor but it's more Boris' 'charisma' and feelings about Brexit.

I don't know who amongst the candidates will resonate with a broad church of Labour voters/ potential Labour voters. It's a tough one.

Someone like Dan Jarvis would sit well with the public but he is not interested. Chuka Umunna would have done too, but he ahs burnt that bridge.

Marsha the media will destroy them no matter what.

They need to fight back in any way they can.

They need to get some very good people in who are experts at manipulating the media.

Are we talking pre Blair traditional or post Blair traditional?

What does it matter? Enough voters. Unless Labour is purely a party for its members forever more. And not for election. Then it becomes, at best a pressure group. That mostly spends it's time patting itself on the back.

Seems like that's the goal though.

Starmer would chop BJ up and then chop up the bits, but faced with a strong and eloquent woman, BJ would chop himself up with the inevitable inappropriate remarks.

Yes, but in the current zeitgeist that would rather more favour 'Boris' . Bless him.

They sure will try Random yes to better media savvy advisors. But also don’t make it easy at the outset (Ed v David for example)

Chukka?

I'm expecting him to join the Tory Party any day now.

I agree! But the public would have liked him as leader of labour!

Alexander Clarkson @APHClarkson
Boris Johnson drops a gigantic dead cat on the table about shredding worker and environmental protection at some point in the future to distract his hardline Eurosceptic MPs that he is shredding their power to block him from extending Brexit transition now
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-workers-rights-environment-climate-change-election-a9248611.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1576502501
Boris Johnson could ditch promise to protect workers' rights and environmental protections after Brexit, No 10 suggests
Downing Street refuses to confirm that pledges made to MPs in October will be included in amended Brexit bill this week

This is an article by Peter Mandelson on the scale of the battle that lies ahead for the next Leader.

Please read, it's very good - and lays out why it is so, so much harder than it was after Michael Foot.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-leadership-general-election-corbyn-macron-trade-union-a9248871.html

And bear in mind, Momdntum are digging in hard.

Despite all statistical evidence to the contrary, GE2019 was a 'win' (moral); Corbyn has succeeded in pushing Johnson to the Left (seriously); MSM was to blame; Remainer Centrists lost the election; Jess Philips caused the defeat.

It's going to take some doing a.) to get any Leader other than R L-B b.) to try and negotiate with Momentum.

Remember, up until Thursday 10p.m., a sizeable section of the Labour Party thought it was a great idea to put up a man who suggested sending poison samples from the Skripal attack to Russia for testing as PM and that he'd win - and the fabulous manifesto come into being.

So ...

What does it matter?

I wasnt the one that trotted out the phrase, and there is a difference between them