Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

Maybe this can help Marsha?

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/22/labour-coffers-make-party-richest-in-britain

You may as well say "ooh no, we don't want Corbyn to win a landslide! Because then he'll have to be involved in an illegal war!"
Imagine I am a centre-left voter. Imagine I don’t like Corbyn’s Labour for being too far left (your words). Now sell me an example of a Labour leader who has been my type. See what image you revoke?
This is the image problem Labour have: one is Corbyn, the last successful one is Blair.

Oh thanks Tobee perfect!

If Labour does not appoint a leader who can defy the Charlatan it is all over.

I do realise that Labour is fkd now, but they really need a good voice to counterract the bullshit that will come from the Dispatch Box.

Every day that Johnson opens his mouth with falsehoods, Every day.

No cendrillon. I don’t cut and paste things out of context. Did you close your eyes and stand in that marketplace for a second? Or may be you don’t give enough fucks.

In the last couple of years, I have realised that I was in a London/south east bubble. Now I am slowly realising that there are many other bubbles in that bubble itself.

Of course I didn’t, because I’m not clinically bonkers.

There are.

London is well bubbly.

cendrillon
Based on your performance on these threads in the last few days, I am still trying to figure out who you are actually. So I will keep my mouth shut on that account.

Paying attention to what worked in 1997 is not the same thing as venerating Blair.

thecat
I don’t think left are going anywhere unless a whole generation of voters is gone (Labour in north). Until then, at least keep ethnic voters sweet. Imagine what Cummings can do with a picture of Blair.

Thelevellers
I know it is not. I just want to know how you will explain that example without showing the picture of Tony Blair?

You want to win the election? Think like Trump. Think like Cummings. Media is not on your side.

For Labour. Bring back Mandleson. Who cares, need a counterpoint for the swivel eyed back room silent devil that is Cummings.

^ This.
It’s all about the image. What does the media want? Clicks. What is the appetite? Reality bloody tv. What do we understand? Slogans.
I never liked Labour’s slogan. I thought it was far too big and generic. It was also possible to turn it on its head which is kind of a facepalm.

Why would anyone need to show anyone any pictures of Tony Blair? I must have misunderstood something I think.

I don't think of Blair as the owner of the concept of trying to appeal to a broader section of the electorate rather than just the converted left wing of the party. He may have been the last Labour person to have made use of that to be elected, but it doesn't belong to him. The point is surely just that he was elected unlike candidates before and after him, and so there's surely value in looking at what made that happen.

I can't see the electorate going "hang on a minute, the last time the Labour party was a bit less narrowly left wing, Blair was elected and started warmongering" (or responding to that message from Cummings) - surely 'being a bit more broadly appealing' is not synonymous with 'will start a war'??

That is how you and I think. But you and I are not who the spin doctors are targeting.
I have just seen a Facebook post on a friend’s page. Her DC has special needs and she is facing constant problems but fighting each hurdle bravely. A very close family member of hers (who must have seen her struggling) has posted on her wall the exact same slogan ‘we will get things done’. Poor lady nearly lost it.
Point is that left need someone on their side who could play the so-called ‘dirty’ game. And play it bravely. And left need to keep all dangerous images like Blair at bay. It doesn’t matter what you think. What mattters is what spin can be put on it and how the audience will look at it and will respond to it.
You are writing these messages at this hour on Mumsnet. You are already on our side. Think like the people who you want to win over. Those are the votes we need.

Was there no other Labour government before Blair that actually got things done?

responding to that message from Cummings
The message from Cummings would not be that wordy. It would be something like ‘New Labour? Blair!’. Printed on a blood red background or images of our soldiers. Or both.
I don’t know what the solution is. Especially as the British tabloid press is so strong.

I am thinking like the people I want to win over - that's the point. They don't seem to respond with joy to a narrowly left-wing agenda. So a Labour party that at least appears broad enough to be touching the centre as well as the left, is more electable, and more likely ultimately to lead to relatively left wing ideas being implemented as a result of being elected.

I don't think acknowledging that, or doing that, means waving Blair in front of people, just because the party in 1997 was also more like that. Internally it means people having the courage to acknowledge that something worked in 1997, and to separate that out from approval of Blair's actions in government, but that's not the same thing as actually using Blair as a selling point to the broader electorate. Is anyone actually advocating that?

Or do you mean the internal stuff, i.e. that it's trying to persuade party members of the value of a broader approach which is doomed if Blair's campaign is given as the example of a successful one? I can see that more, but I think that's exactly what half the conversations going on this week are trying to change. At the very least the back-room planners who are trying to fight the spin of people like D. Cummings need to be capable of analysing what worked for Blair without letting feelings about what else he did later get in the way.

Here we go.

The government is to add a new clause to the Brexit bill to make it illegal for parliament to extend the process beyond the end of next year.

The post-Brexit transition period - due to conclude in December 2020 - can currently be extended by mutual agreement for up to two years.

But an amended Withdrawal Agreement Bill the Commons is set to vote on this week would rule out any extension.

Critics say this raises the chance of leaving the EU without a trade deal.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50818134

@CrunchyCarrot , at this point, I am at the "Fuck it, you knew what you were voting for ", if this goes to No Deal at the end of 2020.

If... IF... the trade talks go in the direction of a close alignment with the EU then it MIGHT be possible to get them done in the time but my gut feeling is that the govt isn't going to go in that direction, but look more towards the US.

I am hopping mad. I had hoped not to get to that point this early!!

Fuck it indeed. People were warned. We all know the issues about No Deal.

I think the EU would probably think fuck it as well. If Boris is up against a deadline, he either has to give something or take No Deal.

Who has more to lose? The EU or the UK? Who has the advantage in negotiations?

Would a Tory Prime Minister have taken us into the Iraq war?

Would Johnson?

Just because elected Blair (probably most of us cast invite for hin) does not mean the centre left faction of the party should be demonized for ever more.