Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

We’re talking about what worked for an election not what was a cause of failure. If the latter then the Iraq war. Not actually showing images of Blair.

That was to Abloom re images

(I come in peace...)

On Keir Starmer, it's not his going to university, being successful or whatever that puts people off, it's him.

In the main (and in my experience) working class people are good about 'working class done good against the odds' - that aspect of Keir is actually a selling point imo & could be spun very successfully

It's the man himself that's the problem

He's a good, upstanding & honest bloke but his actions of the last 3 years have been damaging to him (in a perception way)

He comes across as charmless, plodding & intransigent. He doesn't appear to have the capacity for dynamic thought/action & is not a 'big ideas' man who can sell a broad vision - he's a details man
(He very probably is all of those things, who knows, but he does not present as such which is the problem)

Add to that his apparent devotion to subverting the ref via technicalities & he's not going to go down well at all.

He's def an asset to any front bench, but just not someone who stands out as leadership material

Hope that makes sense

(PP were asking for opinions from non-tribalist floating voters, and that's what I am, hence why I posted - I'm not here for a scrap)

remember that Eton was NOT academically selective in the late 70's

Iirc BJ got some kind of scholarship which is for the academically gifted

Only a handful a year are awarded

Dusty all valid points.

Yep I can see that re KS, shame.

Actually he won THREE times

And the 3rd time was TWO years after the start of the Iraq War!

I think Labour need to look at who played the game and won. It was the backroom team ( Cummings et al ) that won this election, the Labour party need to be focusing on how they achieved it.
They need to understand that people are not overly bothered by the truth, they like being told they are right and do not like being told they are wrong or stupid.
The Conservatives ran a brilliant campaign in that respect.

We are fucked.

Dd asked me this morning: "did Boris Johnson get elected for being the most stupid person in the world?" She's just turned 11 and a few of her class mates have expressed disgust over Johnson. I hope that when they reach voting age that things start to improve again.

The government is to add a new clause to the Brexit bill to make it illegal for parliament to extend the process beyond the end of next year.
My take from that is that BJ is actually not so sure himself that he can ensure there is no prolongations.
He is also probably trying to push the EU into doing the talks FAST, because he knows and the EU has said it clearky already, talks like this take a long time.
He is calling their bluff about wanting some trade deals wth the U.K. on the grounds that it will harm the eu and they dint want that.

I am now just hoping that the EU isn’t going to do what they have done for the U.K. again and again and again, which is to bow to the U.K. and give them whatever they want. Time, imo to grow up a spine and tell the uk to get stuffed with their —demands— requests.
If they do, then yes it might mean a No Deal. But then the U.K. voted for that, with a wide majority.... —as well as destroying the nhs, no new nurses and lowering standards for beef, all of which have been ‘recognised’ by various conservatives in the last week—

Boris got elected because he told people they weren't stupid and that they were right, that's what I would tell your DD Bercows

I agree that KS can come across as a bit dull and deep in the detail. I just wonder how far he would have got if he had come across as charismatic with big ideas for the future of Labour to share, in the Corbyn / Milne party?
I will wait to see how all the candidates perform in the election before making a decision, but he is my favourite so far.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3770822-Westminstenders-Penny-dropping-time?watched=1
New thread

I've just commented to dh, after hearing (and reading on here ) about BJ's plans to make any extension to transition beyond end 2020 illegal that I'm finding that I'm really not that interested and no longer care

My attitude has moved towards a "Fuck it" attitude and I'll save the energy of my outrage towards campaigning for Scottish Independence - where I can make a difference.

Miss he’s still my favourite too, mainly because the others don’t do anything for me. Hopefully he can rally round his weak points. Like BJ does with his bad on the spot bluster.

remember that Eton was NOT academically selective in the late 70's

Not really the point as it’s always provided a good education for all academic levels (it’s a big school) and it’s always taken clever boys and got them into Oxbridge. It’s particularly good on Classics, (what BJ studied) which it has been teaching since the year dot.

Suitably festive PMK picture.

I remember having an argument with my parents after the 1992 election (they were visiting me in England with me as I was running the London Marathon on the Saturday and they'd come to support me) that I didn't think Labour could ever win again because "Middle England" would never vote for them.......

They said I was wrong - which I was but I didn't predict Blair I was delighted when he won in 1997 (even if I can't remember if I actually voted for him as that was the election we were "door stepped" by Nicola) - but was totally disillusioned by the Iraq War which the Conservatives supported amongst other things

He's [Starmer} def an asset to any front bench, but just not someone who stands out as leadership material

No, but there is no shame in being a good Deputy/No. 2 person - who keeps the leader in line.

Oops - wrong thread

But then the U.K. voted for that, with a wide majority.... —as well as destroying the nhs, no new nurses and lowering standards for beef, all of which have been ‘recognised’ by various conservatives in the last week—

This is what we hope that people wake up to see. It is very much the Tories Achilles heel.

Blair leading us into the Iraq war was horrific, but only a tiny minority of the electorate would let a picture of him affect their opinion of Labour,
let alone at the next GE, around 2024

If he magically became leader now it wouldn't be his Iraq record that put people off, but his failures that affected their own lives

As usual, a fanatical section of the left are obsessed about an issue that has no relevance to getting elected

Using Blair as a bogeyman not to elect a more centrist Labour leader is as ridiculous as using Stalin not to elect another leftwing leader

Unfortunately Peregrina I don't think that they will It will still somehow be the EU's fault

And we'll also get the "you voted for this so you knew what you were getting" excuses - even if the exact opposite was promised during the election campaign