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Brexit
Original poster

Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

999 replies

placemats · 15/12/2019 16:35

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

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12
GlassOfPort · 16/12/2019 16:11

I agree @missclimpson.

Also, Starmer is a moderate who has been able to work with JC and has not attacked him in the aftermath of the election. He might be one of the few MPs that could possibly bring together the two wings of the party.

Original poster
placemats · 16/12/2019 16:11

Johnson is rarely going to be at PMQs. Why should a man be considered better at facing down Johnson at PMQs?

It's as if Nicola Sturgeon, Naomi Long, Michelle Malone, Leanne Wood, Harriet Harman (who got a majority of 33,000) never existed.

All the above women are or have been leaders or interim leaders of their parties.

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Original poster
placemats · 16/12/2019 16:13

Sorry that post should include Mary Lou McDonald.

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MarshaBradyo · 16/12/2019 16:13

May was better than Johnson at PMQs but I do ask who people will vote for. Labour don’t need to make it harder for themselves so choose with that in mind.

TheLevellers · 16/12/2019 16:14

The obsession with a female for leader just feeds the image problem of the party being obsessed with hated identity politics.

I agree with this. It also comes across as manipulation.

Female (in particular young female) politicians have enough to do fighting the fact that in a still very sexist country they are seen as less authoritative and 'prime ministerial' than their male equivalents, just because they are female. Add in "chosen just for pc reasons" and they're already even further behind. It wouldn't matter even whether they had been chosen just because they were female - if Labour Party people go round saying "oh about time we had a woman", "we should have a woman this time" then that idea is planted in people's heads and weakens the new leader before they've even started.

Original poster
placemats · 16/12/2019 16:15

Michelle O'Neill not Malone. Apologies.

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TheLevellers · 16/12/2019 16:16

Johnson is rarely going to be at PMQs. Why should a man be considered better at facing down Johnson at PMQs?

I took it that the previous poster meant that particular man, i.e. KS, not any man. He has always seemed pretty good in the commons.

DGRossetti · 16/12/2019 16:18

Labour has always been institutionally sexist. I just can't get over that getting rid of sexism is now part of so called 'identity politics'.

I have no answers, but you don't combat any "-ism" by flipping it on it's head, which I feel the left sometimes think is the answer. It might be done from a place of good intentions, but the road to hell and all that. It seems to me all that approach has done is usher in the current "age of feelz" which is dragging us backwards, not forwards.

UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe · 16/12/2019 16:19

Japan - to merge or not to merge?

And on the other side of the world, Japan’s opposition parties consider merging in an attempt to topple the usually untoppleable leading party. I’m not sure the electorate would go for this, but it will be interesting to see what they decide.

A parallel here would probably be Labour, LibDems and Greens merging into one party.

dontcallmelen · 16/12/2019 16:20

I’m tending to agree missClimpson although labour do have some very talented women my fear is they would go for RLB who is mediocre at best.

missclimpson · 16/12/2019 16:21

Of course I meant that particular man. If I thought any other potential candidate would be better then I would vote for them.
Why is Johnson only rarely going to be at PMQs?

thecatfromjapan · 16/12/2019 16:25

We're not there yet, Giraffe. But give it 20 years ...

DGRossetti · 16/12/2019 16:26

A parallel here would probably be Labour, LibDems and Greens merging into one party.

When the world zigs, and all that[1].

Not necessarily merging, but certainly forming some sort of pre-election coalition that can use some sort of tactical seat targeting to have the best chance of unseating the incumbent government. Ideally going "old school" and conducting all transactions via post to evade the poison of social media.

thecatfromjapan · 16/12/2019 16:28

All-women shortlists were the only way to get more female Labour MPs.

But precisely because Labour have been a bit late to the party, it's not so great right now.

Plus it will look like a stitch-up if Rebecca Long-Bailey wins.

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RedToothBrush · 16/12/2019 16:30

RLB just draws groans whenever she's talked about with people I know.

She might be female but she's spectacularly average.

Is she going to motivate anyone to vote Labour beyond her bubble?

Honestly?

MarshaBradyo · 16/12/2019 16:31

I think Starmer is a decent man and will not stand against an all women shortlist.

Do you mean he shouldn’t and won’t stand because the rest are female? Or is the decent part a separate point

tobee · 16/12/2019 16:31

@yolofish thanks for the picture of the chickens. Hoping for regular updates now! Xmas Wink

JustAnotherPoster00 · 16/12/2019 16:31

Labour Party might make to be more electable you would see as a bridge too far?

Supporting austerity in any form, I want to see some movement by the right of the PLP towards a keynesian economic model, if we cast back to the 2015 manifesto which agreed with the premise of austerity just not as severe as the Tory version when there has been a demonstrable failure of austerity to address anything except to make some already very rich people richer

DrBlackbird · 16/12/2019 16:32

I am shocked, absolutely shocked that as someone with a long history of blatant lying Johnson is apparently reneging on his promises changing his mind about what was offered as part his pre-election Brexit bill and that post election landslide victory it has now become an amended Brexit bill with weaker workers' rights and environmental protections.

Along with no longer allowing MPs to vote on whether or not the transition period would be extended by the end of 2020 to avoid a no-deal Brexit. Though he doesn't have to worry about that one anyhow so that might be more rubbing opposition's noses and a signal of things to come.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-workers-rights-environment-climate-change-election-a9248611.html

tobee · 16/12/2019 16:33

Also yolo they are very fine looking chickens.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 16/12/2019 16:34

A parallel here would probably be Labour, LibDems and Greens merging into one party.

I look forward to the next LibDem leader telling us why he/she cant work with the next Labour leader as with Brown, Milliband and Corbyn Grin

DGRossetti · 16/12/2019 16:35

Why is Johnson only rarely going to be at PMQs?

Why not ? After all he's pretty much set the pattern.

If you can win a fucking great majority behaving like Boris behaved, then you really have to be quite dim to ask why not carry on like that.

Sorry if that's too robust, but it should be fucking obvious.

DrBlackbird · 16/12/2019 16:38

Agree that Johnson does not wish to face any grilling regardless of where, when, and who. Why else has he decided to decline engagement with the Today programme anymore? It suits his minders and it suits him because he really has a very thin skin. Maybe he'll drop PMQ's? Without a written constitution, does he have to keep it up?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 16/12/2019 16:39

Plus it will look like a stitch-up if Rebecca Long-Bailey wins.

If anyone left of centre wins the right of the PLP will call it a stitch up

If anyone right of centre wins the left of the PLP will call it a stitch up

Theres no such thing as a neutral centre in the PLP