Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

The only decent male candidate is Starmer; otherwise Labour's future talent looks female

Another runner who might hit the right notes:

Angela Rayner: White working class boys left behind after focus on race and women’s agendas

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/angela-rayner-white-working-class-boys-left-behind-focus-race-womens-agendas-515458

"I think it’s because as we’ve tried to deal with some of the issues around race and women’s agendas, around tackling some of the discrimination that’s there, it has actually had a negative impact on the food chain [for] white working boys.

“They have not been able to adapt.
Culturally, we are not telling them that they need to learn and they need to aspire.
They are under the impression that they don’t need to push themselves in the way that maybe the disadvantaged groups had to before.
I think that is why there is a bit of a lag there.

I think we need to do much more about the culture of white working class in this country.”

If we apply the bus analogy that popped up during the election to the Labour leadership, then rather than looking for the perfect candidate, people need to think about the candidate best placed to get Labour to the nearer stop.

As a non-Labour member nor supporter, I have no idea.

Iain Duncan Smith said that someone sent a dismembered dead rat to his office during the campaign. I await people's reactions.

It's vile, but it's certainly not true that the far right behave any differently. The Tommy Robinson crowd have waged social media wars that have in some cases spilled over into real life (the "heavies on the doorstep" sort of real life).

And let's not forget that the people convicted in the courts of making serious threats to MPs are, to my knowledge, all on the far right/leave side, as was Jo Cox's murderer.

Just seen a post on Twitter asking why some in Labour are saying they need a female or a Northern leader when Boris Johnson is neither, something to think about anyway.

The Tories would struggle to demonise the very calm & capable Starmer - he could grey rock for England - so would have to pick on those around him

As someone who has found Starmer disappointing on Brexit (he played a long game but ran out of time) - I think he is by far the best available candidate.

Then the logical consequence of your moral purity is eternal Conservative Government. I suppose I should be grateful.

At least you admit that the Conservative intention is too hurt people and if that floats your boat or butters your muffin have at it

It's vile, but it's certainly not true that the far right behave any differently. I agree.

Poster It is only a very small minority in any party who want to hurt people

However, there are many Tories who are not prepared to forego tax cuts - or indeed pay higher tax - to avoid so many people - not like them - being hurt.

At least you admit that the Conservative intention is too hurt people and if that floats your boat or butters your muffin have at it

No, that’s not the intention. But the idea that it’s possible for any Government not to “hurt people” as it makes thousands of interconnected decisions and trade-offs is simply babyish, divorced from reality.

If you like cryptic metaphors, someones tried digging up Reinhard Heydrich

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50806873

OhLookHeKickedTheBall Hope your DD is in less pain now. A shove can do damage!

Squid Take care and huge thanks from me. Family first xx

I was just out doing errands and got tutted for defining a size in centimetres rather than inches.

Once the Brexit WA is through I think we will see a MASSIVE increase in xenophobia and racism and hatred in general

which will crescendo once Brexit Day has passed

I think Starmer is a decent man and will not stand against an all women shortlist.

Remember, it's time to reconnect to the North who will certainly not see the PM for another few years - or when the next election happens.

Regarding the Labour leadership election:

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/12/16/labour-leadership-election-who-can-vote-and-how-does-it-work

In 2018 the rulebook was changed to remove this requirement. It now reads: "The freeze date for eligibility to vote shall be not less than two weeks after the approved timetable is announced and not less than three weeks before the deadline for receipt of ballot papers, with no qualifying period of membership prior to the freeze date."

This means that new members who join now, or up to two weeks after a contest has been timetabled, can vote in it. There is therefore a huge incentive on candidates to recruit new members into the party to vote for them, not just to appeal to existing members.

Yet the UK first made moves towards metrication in 1850. Yes, you did read the century right.

Keir Starmer is the adult in the room, but I think he's more shadow chancellor or home secretary than PM material. Johnson had wider electoral appeal because he seemed like the guy you could have a drink and a laugh with in the pub. Corbyn too earnest. RLB more of the same I suspect. But not being Labour, I'm not sure who fits that bill. No one?

Completely disagree on identifying a female leader. This will not get Labour elected in England. More bad strategy.

Brexit Day. Something to avoid if you can in any way.

Yet the UK first made moves towards metrication in 1850. Yes, you did read the century right.

Another rabbit hole

Some interesting points at the end about forcing people to use units over simply allowing them to ...

The thing with Brexit Day is that
assuming the WA has been passed
it will be a total damp squib

and people will still be trying to file tax returns and pay their bills until nearly midnight

I may make a futile protest though and refuse to accept any Brexit 50ps in my change

JustAnotherPoster00 maybe you missed my question - about which particular compromises the Labour Party might make to be more electable you would see as a bridge too far? I would be interested to know how you'd break it down. (It can't be black and white if the absence of a Labour government in itself makes people suffer.)

I don't know about damp squib. 31st January/1st February.

Recall the days following the referendum result? Lots of "What are you still doing here?" episodes.

As it happens we're visiting my relatives in Glasgow that weekend so things may be different.

A lot of people who are traditionally Labour are fed up of identity politics.

So I don't get why people think its the solution to Labour's problems!

Indeed feeling it has to select a female leader to somehow prove its not sexist as a party, almost does the opposite. It kind of proves the party is sexist and been embarrassed into electing a female leader rather than her being there on merit. And a all woman shortlist isn't going to improve that look.

I think female shortlists have a place but I'm not convinced it's a good idea for the leadership role in these circumstances.

As it goes I do think that there are better female candidates than male ones at the moment, but that's besides the point.

The obsession with a female for leader just feeds the image problem of the party being obsessed with hated identity politics.

It's a no win situation in some respects.

It highlights how Labour need to defuse identity politics within the party though as they are proving a real barrier to proper engagement.

My warm feelings toward JC are ebbing away swiftly. Just go, man. You don't get to advise and lead on clearing up a mess you assisted in creating.

I would chose Starmer because I think he would be the best able to challenge Boris Johnson head to head, especially at PMQs. He will be all over the detail, forensic in questioning and calm. I can't think of anything more disconcerting for Johnson.

Of course the Labour females are better, there are more of them now than Labour men in Parliament.

Labour has always been institutionally sexist. I just can't get over that getting rid of sexism is now part of so called 'identity politics'.