Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

The CDU in Germany is very very socially conservative - e.g. on equal marriage, abortion rights - compared to any mainstream British party
( nothing like the DUP of course)
That's the "Christian" bit, especially in combination with their even more conservative CSU partners

It made me think v hard about voting for them

However, those same Christian principles lead them to being supportive and inclusive wrt different races
and to support:
the social contract of workers & renters rights, good public services, a reasonably decent standard of living for all ...

• and setting tax rates to do so

This picture is why Labour need to get a strong interim leader in place PDQ
This picture is why we need to keep focusing on the damage Brexit will do
And this article shows what happens if we forget our reference points
www.newscientist.com/article/2226898-young-people-cant-remember-how-much-more-wildlife-there-used-to-be/

To change the mood:

I'm guessing we're going to see a lot of angry people in February.

Johnson and Cummings know this - and I'm guessing they are already planning on identifying those groups of people and how to deal with them.

Anyone care to play 'Fantasy Buy Off/Repress'?

I'll start:

1. People bewildered by us going for a Hard Brexit

A.) small business owners suddenly unemployed.

Buy off: 'It was the EUs fault for not giving us X Y Z'.

B.) people cross at shortages

See above
But also
Police needed

1. Buy offs

Increased police numbers? Pay rises?

BCF, I notice parallels with the working class Christian movements of the 19th and early 20th century in the UK. Particularly in Old mining towns where historically they were pretty strong.

I don't think Johnson reflects that but I think perhaps the mentality of the people in those areas does.

fuck off with your gaslighting its becoming a little sick now

I’m not gaslighting and I’m fed up of your vile insults and inability to converse in a civil manner

thecat
Assuming the deal does go through, 1st February will make little tangible difference
BUT
If Johnson confirms that he is going for a non CU/SM Brexit

watch the howls when people like Nissan move their manufacturing equipment out of the UK before EU import tariffs kick in at the end of the year .........

DH is not a Tory. He has said on a lot of occasions that the worst political social media abuse has come from the hard left emboldened by the idea that it's socially acceptable to accuse people of being uncaring evil tories, whereas the hard right are deeply unpleasant and vicious but don't have this same veneer of it being OK to act like that.
Iain Duncan Smith said that someone sent a dismembered dead rat to his office during the campaign. I await people's reactions.

I like Muste's saying - one I think I will adopt.

Just deluding to say I've rejoined labour in the hope of getting a more centrist leader, and one of the questions asks why you've joined/rejoined - fair enough. It's multiple choice and one of the choices is "To support Jeremy Corbyn" I didn't select that option but thought I'd report back as I certainly don't remember being asked whether I personally supported Blair when last joined up. Although now the paranoid part of me is wondering whether my application will be lost/marked pending for next 3 months.

Thanks, Listening.

You're absolutely right.

Any more, people of the thread?

I've re-joined and rolled my eyes at that 'to support JC' option too. I put Other in the end.

Poor rat

You can only enact policy if you win.

Fuck me, I'll repeat not on the suffering of others even if I was guranteed a win

What are the compromises that you think people are suggesting the Labour Party makes that you feel are unacceptable even if it helps them win?

I really don't think you can say the Lbour manifesto was hard left. It's really not, if you compare it to other social democratic parties in Europe.
The fact that so many people see the policies as hard left shows just how rightwing Britain is at heart, and the media.

Poor rat Well it would have been some poor staffer who opened the package. I'm serious. I know Iain Duncan Smith is generally hated but is it acceptable to send him a dead rat?

I put other as well when I rejoined a few days ago, yy don’t remember being asked that previously either.

If the type of regional accent still affects whether you get a job, then I wonder if Britain will ever be fit to compete as a modern developed country

Being leader of the opposition/Prime Minister isn't just "a job" though.

Funny that posh or RP accents are still an asset

I was especially noting the negativity associated with Brummie accents (Black Country too). Not all English accents are equal, for some weird reason. Geordie seems to count quite highly.

Bird totally agree, but many people want the services/resources but really don’t want to countenance paying, how you change that mentality? I’m not convinced that you can.

The Conservative Manifesto does contain a pledge to end rough sleeping, improve renting and build more affordable homes
assets-global.website-files.com/5da42e2cae7ebd3f8bde353c/5dda924905da587992a064ba_Conservative%202019%20Manifesto.pdf
p29 - 30

Whether or not you believe it is up to you. But you can’t say they didn’t mention it.

I've going to be controversial here.

I have a strong ish accent and I am proud of it.

I have lived in the Black country. Now live in another Midlands county.

I am glad that my kids don't have strong accents.
They have what I would call bog standard English accents.

You can here a little bit of the region in there bit not a lot.

That is probably me using stereotypes although with my accent you are always the drunk or a criminal on TV

Funny that posh or RP accents are still an asset Not in Scotland though. The lawyers, doctors and judges have Scottish accents.

notabrummiebrummie.wordpress.com/brummies-stigma/

It's an English problem.
Jess is as middle class as they come. I respect her for keeping a regional accent.

Squiggly, I rejoined Labour the other day too and was surprised at that question. Like you I'm pretty sure I was never asked anything like that when I originally joined years ago.

I selected 'to get the Tories out' as my reason out of those on the list as it seemed pretty uncontroversial for someone joining the Labour party - though it rang a bit hollow the day after a GE defeat.

DH is going to join too though he's more of a LD by instinct. One of my teenage sons is already a member, and the other is thinking of joining to have a say. Both my sons like Corbyn and say that he's still popular among their friends (they're both 6th form) but I'm pretty sure neither would vote for Rebecca Long-Bailey. One of them is a massive Jess Phillips fan.

I am glad that my kids don't have strong accents.

DS has followed in his Mums footsteps and swerved the Brummie accent (DW and I have quiet neutral accents, although I can descend into London quite easily, and she only needed a phone call from her late scouse aunt to be all "Bread" for an evening ). However he's got my sponge ear, so depending who he's with, it can get quite Brummie. Or Italian, since he works with a lot of Italians.

Just to add I have no problem with JPs accent (well no more than I have usually ...). But I don't think it's going to be a plus in the wider UK, no matter how popular it is locally.

Language, accent and usage are another legacy of the Norman invasion that permeates 21st century England and marks us out as separate to Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

Can't be doing with Jess Philips with her theatrics, aggression and ego, much prefer the calmness of Kier Starmer and Lisa Nandy.

derxa I should have said "in England"
I've not noticed such judgements about accents from Scottish people

Although a Glaswegian acquaintance claimed to be able to tell Glasgow "Proddies" from "Papes" as she put it, but when she reproduced the accents they sounded the same to my admittedly very poor hearing.