Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

Its just what I thought looking at the politicians, the media, the commentariat etc. Trust in many of those people is gone and there have to be big changes if it is to be earned again.

^^ This

I agree that there is a massive bout of gaslighting going on here ("you made me do it, you random strangers on an Internet forum" - are you insane? lol) - but OTOH poster you and your Labour colleagues have to choose whether you prefer to lose or compromise.

You can only enact policy if you win. You can only help homeless people by winning. And you won't win by repeatedly doing the same thing in the hope of a different result.

On the subject of homelessness, I have never known it to be so bad in London, and it has objectively worsened dramatically since 2010.

Yuck away with you centrist BCF I honestly will want your opinion on the leadership candidates, your opinion is something I respect not neccessarily agree with but your vote would be a considered thing whether I agreed with it or not

I;ve taken the heat for my support of Corbyn through this entire thing, I'm damned if I'm going to give ANY Tory an easy ride for the vile policies they enact on the very people who can do nothing to fight back because they removed legal aid to make sure we couldnt, do they get a free pass off you cat?

I am not with you politically JustAnother as I think you would be aware, but the rest expresses my feelings 100%. I'm not going to give any Tory an easy ride either.

Labour did do something about homelessness when they were in power (though the usual suspects still moaned).

And that is where Johnson will have a problem courting his new voters in the north. If he makes good on his promises about money for the NHS, the southern English Tories will start bellyaching.

You can only enact policy if you win.

Fuck me, I'll repeat not on the suffering of others even if I was guranteed a win, if it came off the backs of others the price is too high for me, clearly not for the Tories though

Also: I agree with Louise although from a quite different perspective.

There are reasons to think that having Tories representing deprived northern and midlands constituencies will have an influence on policy. This is especially true with regard to Brexit, since most losses of manufacturing jobs will be in a Tory constituencies and any potential service sector gains will benefit in the metropolitan areas which vote Labour.

OTOH these areas are socially conservative, so I expect to see the dogwhistling get louder in Tory messaging.

We are probably heading for Italian-style policies - a big (and very ineffectual) but socially conservative government.

Everything you need to know about how to join the Labour Party and vote in the Leadership contest, by Luke Akehurst.

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/12/16/labour-leadership-election-who-can-vote-and-how-does-it-work

We are probably heading for Italian-style policies - a big (and very ineffectual) but socially conservative government.

And Italy has long had the Lega Nord pushing to cut off the sponging south ...

I guarantee that all MSM comes out in favour of Phillips if she runs

I guarantee that all MSM comes out in favour of Phillips if she runs

She'd have to lose that Brummie accent though. And I write as someone who thinks JP is a pretty decent candidate for leader.

Very late PMK. I think I have got over the initial shock/horror now and am moving to the acceptance stage, What will be will be.

You cant have the character JP without that accent it makes her authentic smh

I agree that there is a massive bout of gaslighting going on here ("you made me do it, you random strangers on an Internet forum" - are you insane? lol

It’s very convenient for you to call it gaslighting so it makes you the victims.

I’m not saying ‘you made me do it’

I’m saying the polarised views and constant slagging off of the Tories whilst accepting the opposition weren’t offering anything better made it clear to me there was no point in supporting the opposition as they couldn’t win because they offered nothing positive and I think a hung parliament would have been the worst possible outcome

Cat, that seems to suggest that you only need to have been a member for 3 weeks to get a vote. I expect to see some twitter campaigns to get old members to rejoin temporarily. I will probably do so.

Socially Conservative doesn't necessarily mean racist and I really think it important to be mindful of this.

There is similar types of resentment in places which have gentrified with white people moving in and communities being displaced.

But it gets less attention and traction in the media because we live in a sensationalist society where its about finding the most extreme examples not the most representative examples.

You cant have the character JP without that accent it makes her authentic smh

I've assimilated the Brummie accent. But just recall it's nearly always top of the pops for surveys about accents that people dislike/distrust or associate with stupidity. I refer you to the staggering lack of top flight politicians with Brummie accents as evidence.

squid Do take care of yourself - put your oxygen mask on first 💐
When you feel able, that's the time to consider were you want to work for the next 5 years and to make enquiries.

You illustrate the danger of the rest of Labour solely blaming the Corbynites for the defeat and excusing themselves

• Labour won't win by losing the chunk of radical leftwing voters that support him, anymore than by alienating the other 2 Labour tribes as happened this time

He is imo a shit leader - sorry -
but the groundwork for losing the North was laid down by 13 years of Blair & Brown neglect and finally Brown's contempt
Would those voters have even voted Leave if they didn't want to demonstrate their anger at that long betrayal ?
JC made a bad political situation much worse, but he didn't create it all

Labour need to accept that all wings of the party contributed to this defeat,
then unite to elect a talented, capable left of centre leader without a dodgy past,
but keep policies that help the precariat and add policies to regenerate the regions that Blair & Brown ignored.

"Labour confirmed on Sunday night that Corbyn had asked for a leadership process to elect his successor by the end of March".

BigChoc, I'm a centrist, but thinking of joining the Labour Party. It is the only other political party in the UK that has held power in goverment (I don't count the coalition). It is the only hope for a party to be an effective opposition. Why would it be unethical to join and hope to be a centrist Labour Party member?

And thank you Louise for sharing your thoughts even if I don't share your optimism .

If it needs to be someone representing a leave constituency, then I could live with Phillips although she wouldn't be my first or even second choice.

But literally anyone is better than RLB + Burgon. The latter is one of the stupidest non-Tory MPs (there is no competing with Mark Francois and Andrea Jenkyns, but Burgon can out-stupid the DUP).

DH is not a Tory. He has said on a lot of occasions that the worst political social media abuse has come from the hard left emboldened by the idea that it's socially acceptable to accuse people of being uncaring evil tories, whereas the hard right are deeply unpleasant and vicious but don't have this same veneer of it being OK to act like that. Thus the numbers are smaller and tend not to pile on in quite the same way.

There is almost a righteousness that is in the mentally of the left whereas the right tends to have a world view more centres around the idea of entitlement.

I personally found a lot of good in the Labour manifesto. I didn't vote for them because it's a wasted vote locally.

Socially Conservative doesn't necessarily mean racist and I really think it important to be mindful of this.

I have to speak as I find and especially now that the Leadership has kicked out the more decent MPs, those that I know who are still with the party are racist bigots.

Socially Conservative doesn't necessarily mean racist and I really think it important to be mindful of this.

It quite often does mean a fair bit of theoretical opposition to outsiders even if in real life socially conservative communities may be welcoming to newcomers. It's all very well arguing that there is no racism to see here, but there is a fair bit of "I didn't mean you".

If the type of regional accent still affects whether you get a job, then I wonder if Britain will ever be fit to compete as a modern developed country

Funny that posh or RP accents are still an asset
(I wouldn't dismiss someone because of being posh, but I don't tug my forelock either)