Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

In some cases, and I mean that very caveated in knowing not all voted that way but because of comments I've seen and heard round my way I'm mentioning it, the idea was that if people were killed it would be the immigrants or 'scroungers' but not the likes of them.

All the better to decrease the surplus population C. Dickens 1842

People who say they don't know where Labour was getting the money from. Yes, you do, you just didn't like the answer.

I have never, on the other hand, ever had a Conservative be able to explain to me where the £30k salary promised to all starting teachers soon will come from, or what that means for experienced teachers on less than that.

It was too late before the referendum.

Was it? I can barely remember that far back. You must have a highly-tuned early warning system DGR if you picked it up that early.

I crawled under a rock called 'motherhood' at around the time Corbyn became leader and have only recently emerged to find an alien and frightening political landscape.

In other news, Johnson is passing a new law, it seems, that will make BDS against Israel illegal:

https://m.jpost.com/International/Boris-Johnson-to-pass-anti-BDS-law-official-says-611044

No matter how you feel about BDS or Israel, that is both quite authoritarian and quite fast.

- Because I didn’t want Brexit dragging on any longer than it has to with Labour trying to negotiate yet another deal
- Because I want to Tories to ‘own’ Brexit and get on with it

OK Bear - so it drags on with Johnson and/or his replacement, and then the Tories don't 'own' Brexit - they attempt to blame every one but themselves, what then?

When the local hospital shuts and you wait even longer for an appointment, will you tell yourself that it was all worth it?

Cue Cendrillon running in to tell us how a Government led by a known liar and cheat has 'promised'.

peregrina it will never be ‘worth it’ but I, and many others felt it is the
least worst option.

Labour weren’t promising to sort Brexit or sort the NHS either

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, and Richard Burgon, the shadow justice secretary, threw their weight behind their long-term ally Rebecca Long-Bailey ... More bad strategy in backing the wrong candidate. More rational argument over emotion. They have not learned. JC provided the ammunition that MSM and Tories/Brexit/UKIP etc were looking for in terms of his 'associating with terrorists etc', but just finding someone without that baggage is woefully insufficient for the current fight to regain relevance. She is not the charismatic and charming leader that Labour desperately needs.

OK Bear, so when you are annoyed at the homeless begging in the streets, tell yourself that this is what you voted for. I will be fine hearing you grumble.

Yeah id have to see what message RLB was offering but not one Id instinctively vote for

peregrina, again, what were Labour offering to do about the homeless?

It’s very easy to blame the Tories for everything but Labour were and are a worse proposition in the eyes of many of us.

so when you are annoyed at the homeless begging in the streets

Tories dont see homeless people, and if they do its clearly their mismanagement of their income and they should have just got a payday loan or you can go with the age old classic, its Corbyn/Socialism/Marxists (delete as applicable) fault, never them and the policies they voted for, its never anything personal

I know, DrBlackbird. 🤷‍♀️

Guys, Bear was replying to me.

And I'm pretty sure you're not going to change her mind this way (if that is your intention). It comes across as venting at her. Which isn't great behaviour.

Was it? I can barely remember that far back. You must have a highly-tuned early warning system DGR if you picked it up that early.

Not at all, many posters on these threads had the same feeling. It was one of the reasons the total abandonment of the Electoral Commission of it's role in ensuring electoral compliance was so damning.

But all of that is immaterial. With the majority he has, Boris can wave his hand (or his cock, for added emphasis) and make any previous illegality, legal. It's the victors prize. Do you think dropping the A-bomb on Japan during WW2 was legal ? Who gives a shit ? Japan lost.

I;ve taken the heat for my support of Corbyn through this entire thing, I'm damned if I'm going to give ANY Tory an easy ride for the vile policies they enact on the very people who can do nothing to fight back because they removed legal aid to make sure we couldnt, do they get a free pass off you cat?

page 77-78 Bear. However since Labour didn't win, the Manifesto is redundant. What is the Tory promise on homelessness?

Apart from telling people to live in tents?

squid, rest, enjoy your children and your DH. Don't feel guilty about needing a break, you've got to look after yourself before you can look after anyone else. and thank you for all you and your colleagues do.

Thats going to be Bears answer for the next 5 years, 'but what about Labour' it doesnt matter about Labour we lost its all on you Tories

Labour did do something about homelessness when they were in power (though the usual suspects still moaned).

That's when it really hit home with me that we had the Conservatives back again: when I saw people sleeping rough on the streets, as they had in the 80s and early 90s.

To quote Nye Bevin: "You don't have to gaze into a crystal ball when you can read an open book".

Thanks cat

It’s clearly pretty pointless me trying to explain anything.

I’ve said several times that it was the polarised views on here which finally persuaded me to vote Tory again

Most of you are stuck in a never ending cycle of slagging off the Tories whilst spectacularly failing to acknowledge the alternatives didn’t offer anything more positive

I really am interested as to why people voted the way they did, Just.

Listening when someone responds to what I asked for is ... 🤷‍♀️ It's not a question of a 'free pass'.

the alternatives didn’t offer anything more positive

Love how the Tories gaslight us, and how 'other people' made her vote to kill more homeless and disabled people, accept some personal fucking responsibilty, its what you Tories do when its your 'hard work' that got you were you are today

I think DrBlackbird asked me some pages back why I though Boris must deliver? I think the point made about whether it matters if he delivers if the opposition are in chaos is a good one to be fair.

Nonetheless I think he must, for 2 reasons, one very selfish, one less so. First, selfishly; does he want to keep those voters?

If Boris and the Conservatives want to keep the swathes of new voters who's support they gained last week I do think they need to see tangible change in their communities, pronto. It would be very easy I think for lost of those voters to look afresh at Labour under a new leader and revert to voting for them next time. Frankly I expect that to happen for lots of them anyway no matter what Boris does, but he can probably keep some of them,

Second and less selfishly, trust. I know it sounds absolutely ridiculous to talk about people "trusting" Johnson, but they have voted for him. More significantly, I think this whole post referendum Brexit saga has been absolutely corrosive of the people's trust in politicians from all sides.

I can now admit that my second thought in reaction to the vote on Thursday night after "Wow! that's big" went something like "Now do you get it?!" Please understand folks I am not addressing that sentiment to posters on here. Its just what I thought looking at the politicians, the media, the commentariat etc. Trust in many of those people is gone and there have to be big changes if it is to be earned again.

Poster Noone knows how long JC will hang on
and also it is quite possible instead - if Labour turns sensible - that they'll appoint an interim leader until candidates are ready and a leadership contest can be organised

Miliband resigning so suddenly left the Labour party in some confusion, which was another reason why Corbyn was accidentally allowed to slip in
Moderates have a lot to discuss before they can come unite, so they need some time.

So, worth joining if anyone is really keen to vote - and is on the left
The contest might not happen within the next 6 months

Don't worry, Poster I won't join:
it would be unethical and cheeky for a centrist to vote in leadership election for a party of either the left or the right

it says a lot, but I don't know why he dragged the LibDems into the argument for towns which haven't been Liberal since Lloyd George's day.

There are small towns which have clusters of very active Lib Dem support and vote yellow at local elections. The demographics in some of these areas are naturally tilted towards LD but they don't vote that way.

There is something that isn't stopping that change and it's not just the Tory / Labour squeeze.

It's fundamentally about the LDs having a few policies which are just completely out of step with public opinion or have a leadership which is somewhat dismissive or contempious of certain parts of the electorate and that has the effect of alienating.