Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

Before you g, Squid, much love to you.

And much love, again, to the passion and energy that so many brought to this election.

Exceptionally late pmk thanks placemats

Been dealing with DD who got shoved over in school on Friday and now has a fractured wrist bone. She's in a lot of pain bless her. Increased painkillers given last night. First time we all slept properly last night since (and my first night since Wednesday!)

Also thinking of gloating and blame and all that..

I just did some maths to try and help us to zoom out and look from a distance.

16,753,651 people voted NO to the new Tory party. The 1 on the end was you.

You/ we are just one of a big number. Blaming, gloating, self flagellation doesn't work really. The numbers are too big.

Of the anti Tory votes, Labour got 10,292,354 million votes. That's a lot of people. All sorts of different types of Labour voters.

13,941,086 voted Tory. A myriad in there too, although it's so tempting to see them as a bloc as well- they aren't.

Zooming out helps I think.

It's hard to explain but when you are sitting on a bus and have those god/ existentialist thoughts about who am I and why does life exists. I think it sometimes helps to zoom out and see your self as a tiny ant in the cosmos, a fleck of dandruff on the huge scalp of the universe. 🐜 🐜 🐜

By the way, mid-January is likely to be the cut-off date for new members wishing to vote in the Labour Leadership election.

Squid, I've been where you are, as have so many others who work in A&E. You will get through this but step away now, take all the sick leave you are entitled to, be kind to yourself, nurture yourself. There is no need to make any big decisions just yet. Take time to heal

Just listened to Stephen Kinnock on R5 Live. He was impressive. Says he's not interested in running for leadership though.

You know, progressives need to 'heal' fast.

Really fast.

Cummings is using the residual bitterness many of us feel about BBC coverage of this election to go for the BBC.

That means 'we' are going to have to swallow - hard - and get out there to defend it.

Honestly, GE2019 is going to be the gift that just keeps giving.

That means 'we' are going to have to swallow - hard - and get out there to defend it.

Nope, it needs to go, let it fund its own biases I wont

Let it live by the neo liberal view point it espouses and I'm sure the 'market' wont be very nice to old aunty

I kind of disagree, Just.

My initial reaction was very much along the lines of yours but I've spent time in the USA &, honestly, it's way worse without the BBC.

The Tories filled the BBC with Tories in senior roles - many of whom will actually benefit from the dismantling of the BBC. Indeed, have probably been promised that.

But the BBC is way, way more than those senior BBC Tories, and it is that BBC we must defend.

Honestly, a general rule of thumb is this:

If Cummings wants something, it's something that is going to be bad for you and me.

If Cummings wants something, try your best to stop him getting that something.

Are there going to be any announcements about SoS and Ministerial appointments or is that not the new way of doing things? Maybe they will just have a tombola or Secret Santa or something?

Just because its Cummings doesnt mean its bad, the BBC alone is the reason we have Farage, without it he wouldnt have managed to reach as many people as he has considering he was no more than a minor leader for an unelectable protest group but given the amount of airtime he was given he we are.

Im not even judging this on the left/right bias of its journalists but of the corporation reluctance to move with the times and the un verified repitition og the incumbent governments propaganda

This is worth a read

threads.greatscaleanalytics.com/thread/1206195079049859072

As someone who's actually from one of these economically deprived Labour heartlands supposedly 'betrayed' by Labour, and whose family mostly voted Labour, I can't tell you how infuriating it is to read these bullshit 'takes' from people who've never even been to these areas.

It's especially galling when the election results are used as a reason to push Labour back to the centre-left, because the truth is that a centre-left Labour has done next to nothing for these areas, and that's why we are where we are today.

This is from a 2016 Guardian article and it doesn't even touch on the economics of the area from the 80s to the late 90s. Devastation is the only word for it.

Just the only way to change things is to win elections.

The Hard Left have not done that in my lifetime.

I was born just before Maggie.

So of my 41 years , 28 of those years have been under a Tory govt.

I want that to change.

I want things to change for your area.

For all there is to criticise about new Labour, I will never criticise them for Devolving power to Scotland.

That made a difference. The areas hardest hit have not had then (well apart from Wales).

@squid4 nothing I can say will make you feel remotely better, just take care of yourself 💐

Pmk

I'm not as married to the hard left as some of you seem to think I am unless my 'not willing to gain through the suffering of others' mantra is being hard left, if that is the case then move on and dont waste your time or mine in trying to make me willing to vote for that because it will not happen, I still remember centrist Labour abstaining on the welfare bill

The election results are being examined, Just, because the election resulted in the near-destruction of Labour.

And I think we both agree the near destruction of Labour is a bad thing.

People are going to have a variety of ideas about what happened, and what the solution is.

Most of the people I hang out with think the solution is to carry on with the same project, the same team behind the scenes, but just a change of Leader.

Some people think that that is choosing to run into a wall for the third time and we need a change.

Who know who is right?

I don't.

I put forward one view partly because, in my experience, it is a minority view in the Labour Party and it needs space to breathe.

I respect your view, and listen to it.

One thing is for sure, if Labour makes the wrong decision, we won't see another Labour government for 10-20 years.

So it's worth having that discussion, and listening to all viewpoints.

It's really worth listening to people who didn't vote Labour. Because ... that was the problem, really.

And I think blaming it all in MSM, and the BBC, isn't going to help. It's going to make fixing things, so that we can win, far harder.

As a remainer I dont think our insistence on Labour supporting a PV was the right move in retrospect, if what we are seeing/will see is that Labour voters decided to stay home and not lend their votes to the Tories then we are to blame for that

My own theory is that the U.K. just doesn't like the hard Left.

They don't see them as 'like you, just more - much more - compassionate'. They see them as authoritarians.

This election seemed to be about choosing between two forms of authoritarians.

It's why the stuff about 'If you vote Conservative, you are voting to kill people' didn't land - it wasn't what people saw themselves as voting for.

But I have no idea.

We need to hear from people who voted Conservative, and actually listen to what they say, rather than just pretending to listen to what they say.

I am sorry things are so horrendous for you, @squid4. And terrifying that it's so very bad in A&E. I had a glimpse of it a couple of years ago when I was taken there on 2nd Jan, the corridors were full of people, I felt particularly sorry for the elderly who had, according to one person there, been waiting for 12 hours for a bed. I felt a fraud even being there as it turned out I had Bell's Palsy, not suffered a stroke, but it was an eye opener and Staff were run ragged.

Please rest and get your strength back, you can't make decisions in that state.

Just I agree that the BBC along with every other MSM shares some blame in giving voice to the fringes because it's controversial so makes good press. Same is said about Trump in the US. However, I completely disagree that because its Cummings doesnt mean its bad. Anything Cummings is very very disturbing and bad. This man is a complete unknown really in terms of his loyalties (other than winning) and his beliefs and yet is in an extremely powerful position within No 10 with a PM who actually is lazy and doesn't give a toss about boring policy making. Cummings blog makes him sound a bit crazy really but doesn't give much away.

It's a shame the 'Why did you vote Conservative?' Threads on MN haven't been more positive. Because MN would be a really good place to find people's stories.

My own theory is that the U.K. just doesn't like the hard Left.

Why then were the policies offered by Corbyn polling well until people were told whos policies they were, and were would they have got that opinion unless we live in a country of political nerds other than from the media and since 2015 the PLP briefing against Corbyn with a neo liberal MSM willing to peddle social democratic policies as pure socialism/communism

Labour is going to have to figure out a way of counteracting the MSM but getting into bed with it will not be helpful

Just who would be your choice as leader ?