Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

To be fair, Tatiana, that poster was describing the mindset of people who vote Conservative.

Sure, and it DrBlackbird’s family I was disagreeing with not the poster themselves.

My leave-voting northern city kept all its constituencies entirely red, and did not swing Tory even an inch. I know it’s not helpful, but right now I feel like building a wall around us.

The hospital where I currently work is an hour away and voted Tory. If they don't want doctors, fine. I am not going back there.

I gave myself a needle stick on Thursday, have burned myself cause I couldn’t stop shaking, have chest pains and palpitations, see all the people who have died when I shut my eyes, can only sleep with sleeping pills, have lost about half a stone or maybe more

Gp signed me off

I haven’t had a sick day in 2 years and feel wretched guilty

But I’ve been thinking about getting out for a while , as have most of us. Most of us have an exit plan ready, so everyone's just getting that sorted now . Who really wants to be the last doctor in A&e?

This thread has also made it very clear anyone who supported Corbyn is now not welcome in the Labour Party and is actually being blamed for the tories actions

I am cancelling my membership

Good luck

I think if you're lucky enough to have the skills and youth to move elsewhere in the world for a bit, you should.

You need time and self care. A jug that is empty can't give to others.

No need to decide on long term plans now. As private medicine is coming in, we may as well have decent people helping shape and perhaps modify it with compassion where possible?Even private provision is still making a difference to those in the U.K. who are acutely ill and may have scrimped to afford it.

PMK.
I have massively stepped back from politics. I prefer to put my head in the sand atm.

BUT... these threads are still my best source of information so still coming to give a wave and do a bit of reading.

Thanks to all of you that are keeping them going!

This thread has also made it very clear anyone who supported Corbyn is now not welcome in the Labour Party and is actually being blamed for the tories actions

I think it's inevitable people will initially look around for some convincing analysis. Some one to blame. It's a kind of thrashing around.

It's important to remember that Labour got 10.3 million votes. That's a lot of people. All sorts of different types of Labour voters, all welcome and not to blame for the new Tory shift. It's a myriad of complexities. Don't see it in a binary way and don't resign membership yet. Just take time.

Cendrillon would do well to recall the concept of hubris and pride before a fall. All this crowing will be short lived.

An immediate example springs to mind - Nigel Dodds and the DUP. Lording it over us between 2017 up to 12th December. Where is he now and what role will the DUP have in the new Government?

And I agree Tatiana that we are not going to see any soft Brexit but disagree on the death of fascism. This is an era of ugly politics again.

Not disputing fascism is on the rise, my point is that while extremely unpleasant and alarming, it’s not as strong as the principal wave nearly 100 years ago now. It’s more of an aftershock.

I don’t think think this wave will lead either to world war or genocide or long term hardcore totalitarianism.

Many European countries have lived totalitarianism - Germany, Italy, Spain, Vichy France, Russia and E.Europe - they don’t want to go back there.

The U.K. and the US have been infected because they didn’t get it last time round. (Arguably the fascistic tendency in the U.K. - Mosley etc - was pushed underground to resurge in the shape of Farage.)

Squid I’m very sorry to hear of your suffering.

squid4 are you from Liverpool ? You don't have to say if you don't want to. I joined the Labour party to support Corbyn after the challenge from Owen Smith but wasn't allowed to vote. I accept though that he just isn't popular with most voters and Labour has to move on. Please don't think everyone on this thread don't want you in the Labour party. The Labour Party has to chose a leader who will appeal to more voters and this includes Corbyn supporters, I can see the young enthusiastic Corbyn supporters moving to The Green Party if they don't. Take care of yourself and thank you for all that you do.

Squid

I think your sentence about the Labour Party not being a welcome place for Corbyn supporters must be in response to some of my posts.

I don't think that at all.

I believe the task now facing the Labour Party is to keep those members, and the voters we have, whilst widening support.

Or we will simply lose again.

And losing is terrible.

It means Just faces UC hardship, you have to go back to work in an unsupported NHS, and I go to work in the underfunded education sector.

I'm sure you feel absolutely raw at the moment but please believe me when I say I love all those who worked for and supported an opposition to Johnson.

But I can't bring myself to hate all of those who didn't. Partly because I know we need them on board next GE.

In the immediate aftermath I really didn't feel that way.

But I do now.

Honestly, I have so much respect for all of us who worked for a fairer, kinder society. And I have a great deal of worry about what the next few years are bringing.

@squid4, I have been or rather am in a similar position than - worrying about the future and wanting an escape, one I cannot have for at least 4 years due to the dcs doing exams etc...
What helped me is to step back from all the news (and only very occasionally read this thread). Recover, take some time out for myself and make a plan, even if it’s one that will take a long time to implement.

Just like in a plane, in case of decompression, put on your own oxygen mask on FIRST. If that means being off sick for a week, a month, then so be it. If that means reevaluating your life, what you want out if it and how to get that, Then take your time. Don’t make any rash decision but then go for it! Youll get there 🙂🙂

long term hardcore totalitarianism.

Long term hardcore totalitarianism regimes in the west to be specific.

squid

Good, fair post Lonelyplanetmum

Squid am so sorry that you have been pushed to this point . I don't think that anyone here is blaming Corbyn supporters or being blamed for Tory actions other than Tory supporters coming on the thread to blame/gloat/say 'I told you so'. What people are saying is that the Labour message didn't get through.

It was always going to be an uphill battle for Labour because it's nigh impossible to counter an emotional argument with a rational one, particularly when the MSM successfully portrayed Corbyn and Labour as radical socialists out to bankrupt the country. Please don't cancel your membership. You can vote for the next leader and the direction of the party and because no other party has a whisper of a hope to gain office or be the opposition we so desperately need.

Sheffield. feels like the whole city has been silent for days

Cummings is staying as adviser to BJ, to start making the constitutional changes. I think people will soon find out they've been taken for a ride.

It's pretty bad here, too, Squid.

And, apparently, it's all our fault (metropolitan elite signing in for duty).

It's funny - because I'm Midlands born, do I feel like I'm getting battered by all sides. 🤷‍♀️

But I'm just listening and listening.

The aim - for me - is to start preparing for the next fight, with the aim of winning.

squid4 please stay on these threads and in the Labour Party. I think the more discussion and range of views there is about the leadership can only help us choose someone who appeals to wider sections of the party/electorate.

One of my working class Corbyn supporting mates (yes - i know several) lives outside the city in a target seat and he said he was bombarded Day and night by personalised, directed Facebook ads some pretending to be his friends saying anti Corbyn outright lies and smears. He said it was not obvious they were ads they were dressed up to be other things, from mates or local news or "concerned local GP" or whatever. They said labour was in power in the area and had cut their schools and hospital funding. He said he got them on the hour for days before the election.

is that legal?

I really wonder if the changes planned by Cummings - the terrifying ones outlined on page 48 and elsewhere - will percolate through, though, Torchlight?

I have many - extremely worrying - thoughts on this.

I haven't been on the news since the election and am planning to avoid it for a while. I read this thread this morning, but I think I'm going to switch it off too. thanks for kind thoughts.

As I'm sure you know, 'legal' is now quite a loose concept, as regards social media, Squid.

I wonder if media will play such a strong role in the next GE.

My bet is that more important factors will be:

Constitutional changes (voter I-D & boundary changes)

The geography of FPTP (young people don't vote Conservative in large numbers but they also move to urban centres).

I wonder if those two things will help keep the Conservatives in power long after the demographic changes that should oust them happen.