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Brexit
Original poster

Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

999 replies

placemats · 15/12/2019 16:35

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
ListeningQuietly · 15/12/2019 20:48

thecat
You are absolutely right, at the moment there is no credible opposition to Johnson
and it has to be said that many of the individual Labour policies were cracking
but the cumulative effect was stultifying

for now we need an opposition that has the nouse to shout bullshit and park its tanks on the middle ground
while putting together policies to fight when the reckoning comes

Labour's policies are toast
the ones that matter now are the Tories
and they should be challenged every step of the way for the next few months

until the new Labour leader sets their new direction

BigChocFrenzy · 15/12/2019 20:49

Is an abuser responsible for his actions
or are the people who were too weak to stop him ?

On MN, we always blame the abuser

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 20:51

Is an abuser responsible for his actions
or are the people who were too weak to stop him ?

On MN, we always blame the abuser

^^ This a million times

thecatfromjapan · 15/12/2019 20:53

You know, Bear has a point.

When a Party lose - especially in a situation like this - it is madness not to examine the failure and change to a Party that wins.

Especially if you truly believe the stakes are that high.

Currently, Labour is planning no change.

And that means they are counting on the coming years being so, so bad you will vote for them next time.

Now, I ask you, is that ethical? Or is it a cynical abuse of people's pain in order to force them to vote for something they wouldn't willingly choose?

And are they not, in fact, aiding and abetting the infliction of pain for political gain?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 20:54

When a Party lose - especially in a situation like this - it is madness not to examine the failure and change to a Party that wins.

Not at the suffering of others

thecatfromjapan · 15/12/2019 20:55

I agree that the abuser is to blame, BigChoc.

But I honestly think the hard Left are being unbelievably cynical with a desperate electorate - and need to be called out on it.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 20:55

Bear why do you think I deserve less money a month because my disability hasnt changed and all it will do is make me more ill and my life much much harder?

ListeningQuietly · 15/12/2019 20:55

thecat
Not sure what makes you think Labour are planning no change ....
they will change and by a long way in a short space of time
OR
they will go down in history as
Momentum who enabled the ERG

THe opposition need to oppose
if they do not then they are enabling

thecatfromjapan · 15/12/2019 20:56

Just An Opposition that doesn't win isn't actually any good.

The pain just goes on.

thecatfromjapan · 15/12/2019 20:57

listening I agree.

Sadly, I think they really are going to be 'Momentum who aided the ERG'.

RedToothBrush · 15/12/2019 20:57

Sorry long week / weekend. I'm already in bed.

Thanks placemats.

Bearbehind · 15/12/2019 20:57

Thanks cat

There’s not much point in me pursuing this though.

You are not abuse victims, it’s pretty disgusting to use that analogy.

You stood by and let the Tories win

Own it and stop blaming those of us who took the decision to make one party take responsibility for this mess.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 20:59

Just An Opposition that doesn't win isn't actually any good.

The pain just goes on.

The suffering of other to get into power might be ok for you cat but its not something I could ever vote for in a leader

We tried the 'were going to fuck you just not as nastily' manifesto in 2015 that also failed

chomalungma · 15/12/2019 20:59

An Opposition that doesn't win isn't actually any good

I remember a few years commenting:

Do Labour want to win power or do they want to have policies that they think are really good but won't win them power.

You can't make changes if you aren't in power. Even some changes are better than not being able to make any changes at all whilst the country goes more and more away from the kind of country you'd like.

There were many comments about sticking to your principles. Principles are great - but what's the point in having principles if you can't get to act on them.

Alsohuman · 15/12/2019 21:00

They are just as much your responsibility because you fervently supported a twat who couldn’t stop the Tories winning

No, you don’t get to pull that one. You voted for them, whatever happens, you’re going to own it. Those of us who tried to prevent it aren’t going to let you off the hook, no matter how you try to shift the blame.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 21:00

Own it and stop blaming those of us who took the decision to make one party take responsibility for this mess.

Why did you vote for me to be poorer Bear?

Own it, you won it

Bearbehind · 15/12/2019 21:01

No, you don’t get to pull that one. You voted for them, whatever happens, you’re going to own it. Those of us who tried to prevent it aren’t going to let you off the hook, no matter how you try to shift the blame.

I’m not denying my part in this.

I voted to make one party responsible for seeing Brexit through as there was no other alternative

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 21:01

£120, do you know how much food, fuel, electricity I could get for that Bear?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 21:02

Lets not take into consideration how the cuts to mental health provision are going to affect me

Bearbehind · 15/12/2019 21:03

Why did you vote for me to be poorer Bear?

I didn’t

It’s not personal

How were you going to be better off under the Labour unicorn giveaway?

I’d actually have been better off in theory under Labour

Violetparis · 15/12/2019 21:04

Cat I am really not sure the majority of the membership would vote for someone just because they are who Corbyn/McDonnell have endorsed. I say this as someone who likes Corbyn and really wanted him to do well but I can see clearly Labour needs to go in another direction. I know other more ardent Corbyn supporters who feel the same.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 21:04

It’s not personal

I know its that you dont give a shit about others, and people wonder how I got my 'love' of the Tories

Bearbehind · 15/12/2019 21:06

I know its that you dont give a shit about others, and people wonder how I got my 'love' of the Tories

As ever, that’s bollocks.

I actually voted to make myself poorer because I think there’s more deserving causes.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/12/2019 21:06

I say this as someone who likes Corbyn and really wanted him to do well but I can see clearly Labour needs to go in another direction.

^^This

I dont care who Corbyn recommends, who are they and what have they got to say, it was that way for me in the 2015 leadership election and the 2016 leadership election

thecatfromjapan · 15/12/2019 21:07

Just We have just suffered through most comprehensive defeat for 80 years.

It's going to take at least 10 years or a national disaster for Lsbour to get back into power. Minimum.

What, exactly, is bad about winning and avoiding 10 years (minimum) of actual pain?

Believe me, I'm not the one who's OK about that.

The people that is on is Murphy and Milne (for starters).

Amazingly, they are still employed - paid by me and you, by the way - and look to stay that way indefinitely.