Westministenders: Election Special 2

[RedToothBrush]

Exit poll

Con majority of 68.

65 seats regarded technically as still too close to call. But that could mean an even bigger majority.

Blyth Valley has seen a 10% swing to the cons in line with the exit poll. 1st shock of the night

However, bearing in mind that he will want to secure his demographic of new support for the future, I personally think it'll be the opposite - he'll go hard for performative conflict with Europe, further demonisation of immigrants, and attacks on lentil-knitting strawmen.

Agreed. This is were the ERG has intended to take the Tories since 2016. May’s original deal was negotiated to be open enough that, if the ERG couldn’t defeat it, they would merely replace May with an ERGer who would then fail to agree a deal with the EU, leave NI in the backstop and fuck off. That has been the plan all along.

Why would joining a tiny party be any more feasible than all the Change UK MPs, centrists and moderate left & right, who the voters rejected this GE ?

Also, the SDP is a Brexity party, whereas almost all moderate Labour MPs are Remainers
It would be the Lexity Corbyn wing who might fit the SDP !

Enemies of the people was a Daily Mail headline.

Many thanks to Red, Big Choc for starting the threads that have been a haven of sensible analysis and insight these past few weeks and to many others posters for their sad, funny, witty contributions. It'll be no more news for me for the next four years (could not stomach seeing Gove, JRM, BJ ad nauseum), but will continue to read these threads if Red keeps them up.

Under FPTP, splitting is electoral suicide

We saw the effects of the Remain vote being split among a few parties

There were a few goady visitors from the WM threads trying to pick a scrap but they were dispatched very quickly

Haven’t been in, but the idea of Brexit Arms dispatching anyone is hilarious. They can barely scrape grammatical sentences together.

I do not think a return to the centre ground would help Labour. That's for the Lib Dems to sort out.
I'd like to see Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long Bailey or Jess Philips as Labour leader.

I do not think a return to the centre ground would help Labour. That's for the Lib Dems to sort out.

Surely we all learned this lesson in the 80s. No chance for Labour electorally in this right wing country unless they embrace the centre ground.

The LDs can never muster the numbers.

Tiddle when was the last time a Hard Left Labour party won an election.

I am not saying a centre left party would

Its Labours problem.

Tory party can be hard right but still attract centrist voters.

I would say that the Labour manifesto did embrace the centre ground.
We are also looking at a different landscape to the 80s, historical comparisons only go so far.
And what now of the climate crisis?

But , also, Scottish values are just different. They just are. A left wing, socialist party appeals to many.many Scots. The only appealing Toryism was soft Toryism under the palatable Ruth.

It seems, for whatever reasons, socialism does not appeal to as many English and Welsh folk.

Being posh helps BJ and JRM

This is so true. I've said before that our obsession with hierarchy and class means that the lower classes feel somehow secure in being kicked by their superiors. It's like a better the devil you know argument.

At my other DCs state primary their handed down school song was all about helping and co operating and basically submitting. I always used to resent that message being drummed in.

It's as if maintaining the hierarchy and being kept down in the class structure (with a false hope of climbing up) is somehow comforting and secure in its familiarity. It's like the two Ronnie sketch " I know my place"

(Even though in BJs case the English poshness was a deliberately acquired faux English aristo air. It really resulted from by a mix of Turkish, German, French immigrants settling and succeeding in the U.K. by playing the English at their own game.)

in this right wing country

But why?? I just don't get it.

I'm not sure tories, in their current form are attracting centrists. Centrists would be appalled at johnsons rhetoric. Someone like major is far more unifying.

I really would not say that Scottish values are very different.

Not from the North England / Wales.

People had an alternative there.

And Devolution.

If there had been regional assemblies at the same time as Devolution then I don't think we would be in this mess.

Ghost they don't won an election like that without attracting Centrists.

Why would joining a tiny party be any more feasible than all the Change UK MPs, centrists and moderate left & right, who the voters rejected this GE ?

It's you that's talking about the need for a split in Labour

My post was in response to another poster (not you) who said there was no party that represented her - I merely pointed out that there was one she may wish to look at

Also, the SDP is a Brexity party, whereas almost all moderate Labour MPs are Remainers

That ship has sailed now

There is no remain anymore

There is no 2nd ref

Brexit is happening

It would be the Lexity Corbyn wing who might fit the SDP !

If you'd actually bothered to read instead of just launching in to scoff, you'd have seen that I said they're a centre left party.

Very much not the Corbyn wing

Indeed, the 'Corbyn wing' are far left Marxists, typically middle class

The SDP are centre left, for the working class, not in hoc to ideology as many of the 'liberal left' are (I.e. they're not like the Lib Dems either)

It's a right wing country because right wing ideology needs division to function successfully. Scapegoat the poor, the sick, migrants take your pick. Its drip fed over generations via the right wing press. Some people will vote to conserve their privilege but many are sucked in by the slogans.

Haven’t been in, but the idea of Brexit Arms dispatching anyone is hilarious. They can barely scrape grammatical sentences together.

😂😂😂😂😂

KK then poppet

They really are random. I have family in all three . It is just different to be Scottish. I am not going to start offending any Welsh people now so will hold my counsel! But the Brexit vote highlighted different values.

RTBs really interesting 3D values map with the 'tribes' on it perfectly illustrated that.

Are you Scottish random?

Yes, ghost but I meant why is it a right wing country, rather than what is a right wing country? What is it in the national mindset that makes 'us' right wing? Is it an island nation thing?