Westminstenders: Frozen

[RedToothBrush]

Boris Johnson was empty chaired by C4 with a block of ice.

The Conservatives went mental and have threatened to look at C4 broadcast remit.

This is illiberal and anti democratic.

Journalists are supposed to hold power to account on behalf of the public. If MPs don't turn up then they can't be held to account.

They have a duty to show. It's not good enough to avoid scrutiny because it might make you look bad. That's the whole point.

The contempt with which Johnson holds the press and public is reprehensible and you should be concerned whatever your political alligence. It allows corruption to fester without consequence.

And to then threaten C4 because they do their job in line with their responsibility as a broadcaster is alarming.

This is how authoritarian dictators work.

[TiddleTaddleTat]

Pmk

[RedToothBrush]

Tensions are really running high because people are frustrated and concerned about whats happening.

This election was always going to add fuel to that fire with the political parties churning out their own propaganda and the public buying into it and copying it. We knew that the truth and material reality were under threat - ALL the political parties are doing it.

The media's failure to challenge and respond to that are part of the problem.

The truth has no meaning and is replaced by what people want to believe instead. Its a feature of authoritarianism of all kinds.

Its a dangerous mix.

As much as its tempting to indulge in conspiracy theories, we must keep our eyes of the concept of the truth and how important it is. We must question what 'our own side' is saying as much as the opposition.

The trouble is our political leadership isnt doing this, and until someone comes along with that sort of humility and honesty we are set on a collision course where all this building resentment is going to come to some sort of head.

I dread to think what form that will take.

[XingMing]

Hi Westminsterenders. A denizen of the Brexit Arms, more often on S&B . But I was a reluctant and conflicted last minute convert to leaving the EU in 2016. Since when, remaining has assumed the status of religion. You may feel you know that we are all dyed-in-the-wool, knuckle-dragging fascists/racists who wish to return to the days of Empire and suppression. It's just a little more nuanced there (as it is here probably) when you read along in real time than we all think. There's probably far too much written to make reading all the posts viable, but if I may, I think the main difference is that you see and empathize with society's victims and ours lie with people who aim to get by respectably, but who are not themselves rapacious capitalists. I don't know any of those personally, but I do know hordes of plumbers and electricians and mechanics who understand the importance of working to make a profit.

As I said, just stopping by.

[FMFL]

PMK with thanks Red.

[HeyNotInMyName]

PMK.
Thanks red

[HoldNose]

PMK

[mrslaughan]

@xingming
I would the same about leavers - it taking on cultish behaviour. Most remainers on here, would love to remain but realise that compromise is necessary. I see no compromise from the leavers side, just a greater shift to a more extreme hard brexit - that will harm the economy- and the lose hardworking people you talk about.
If brexiteers has voted for TM's deal - we would be on our way to negotiating our way out. But they didn't. If Boris did not try to remove the parliamentary sovereignty- by pushing through his deal in 3 days, rather than trying to just allow it 3 days - we could be almost in the next stage of leaving. Why did he pull it?

There seems to be very little understanding of the legal process of leaving and what that means on the leave side. Just yelling of slogans.

So forgive me if I have no sympathy for your post. You seem to want to simplify things to the point that they become meaningless.

[TheMShip]

Thanks for stopping by, Xing. It sounds to me like you saying that people posting in the Brexit Arms are not sympathetic to victims of society? The people "getting by respectably", how many paychecks or financial hits away from becoming one of "society's victims" are they, and do they think a Tory government would prevent that slippage into poverty?

[Greykitten]

PMK

(Am a regular, namechanged due to stalking)

Mship, hope you are able to destress effectively and to get some support put in place.

[TheMShip]

Posted too soon.

Is it not possible to want a strong safety net as well as having opportunity to get on in work and life? I don't think these are incompatible goals.

[prettybird]

I see and empathize with society's victims and aim to get by respectably

The two are not incompatible

[tobee]

I would like to add that a lot locked off because of a really bad and it injudicious post the post the other night about Goebbels. I was just thinking wtaf, re read it to try and see if I'd read correctly about it when people from the other thread came over and I let my annoyance at those posters be what directed my thinking, reminded posters not to respond to goading rather than to condemn the original comment. Not my finest is all I can say.

[Piggywaspushed]

Thanks for posting xing. You are right : I unequivocally care most about the vulnerable who are indeed victims and victimised. This goes not mean they are people who don't want to get on.

[tobee]

*a lot kicked off. Not a lot locked off

[lonelyplanetmum]

that you see and empathize with society's victims and ours lie with people who aim to get by respectably

The problem with this is that the 'victims' or vulnerable hope to get by respectably too.

Otherwise I think the comment has some truth - with the addition that the new breed of Tory are duping people with a false belief that only they will provide a leg up on the respectable path when in fact they will make that path far more slippery for most.

[Stinkyeddie]

🎵🎶🎵🎶

[Whowantstogotothepark]

The Brexit Armsateers are, as always, buoyed along by some sort of resentful victim-complex-ity.

Yet they're the downtrodden, oppressed and angry victims of...

I agree. I was on another thread where the OP said they were happy none of their friends were Tory supporters. A little goady, but the abuse they got was huge (perhaps unsurprisingly). But I noticed that none of the highly offended Tory supporters produced any constructive arguments, evidence or even future policy (proganda and lies of course) to substantiate why voting Tory was a good thing. (At least two posters claimed they would change their vote because of the OP - bonkers!).

I keep hearing there is little crossover between right/left and leave/remain, but there does seem to be a common thread of victim-status and ranting with no recourse to proper discussion on the right/leave side.

[GeistohneGrenzen]

.

[DustyDiamond]

tobee - I've done similar often

🍷

[Greykitten]

understand the importance of working to make a profit.

Is this intended to imply that some of us don't understand the importance of working for a profit?

[Piggywaspushed]

I teach in an affluent area. Not sure climate change really is such a thing to debate. One girl declared she would either vote Green or Tory because there is no difference. Another said floods aren't a government's responsibility...
A term studying Animal Farm hasn't exactly awakened them!

However they do all think Brexit is stupid.

[TheABC]

Just got back from the school Christmas fair, complete with a tasteless Christmas jumper.

I would like to extend some festive hygge feeling and hot chocolate to everyone!

[EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit]

Tobee

good of you to say that.

I’ll go back home to my own thread now.
😉🕊💐

[bellinisurge]

Leavers won the referendum because people from all income ranges were no longer convinced by the idea that other people knew better than they did. And that hasn't really changed. Add to that the perception that their opinion (I.e. Vote Leave) was being ignored by people who think they know better and no amount of "vote Labour to save the NHS" is blocking that out. It's so important that they are prepared to support a feckless piece of shit (for now at least) to make it happen.

[OhLookHeKickedTheBall]

DH has put the bbc debate on. Rishi Sumac's young child is apparently their climate change champion in their household. I've just stopped cringing