Westminstenders: Frozen

[RedToothBrush]

Boris Johnson was empty chaired by C4 with a block of ice.

The Conservatives went mental and have threatened to look at C4 broadcast remit.

This is illiberal and anti democratic.

Journalists are supposed to hold power to account on behalf of the public. If MPs don't turn up then they can't be held to account.

They have a duty to show. It's not good enough to avoid scrutiny because it might make you look bad. That's the whole point.

The contempt with which Johnson holds the press and public is reprehensible and you should be concerned whatever your political alligence. It allows corruption to fester without consequence.

And to then threaten C4 because they do their job in line with their responsibility as a broadcaster is alarming.

This is how authoritarian dictators work.

[DustyDiamond]

I would have ignored any fancy talk about how a loan would be good for me, because when you're poor, all that fancy talk usually turns out to be another con, at best well-meaning but empty promises

I tend not to use 'fancy talk' - I just stick to facts

And the fact is that the fee loans are like a graduate tax

🤷🏻‍♀️

[mybrainhurtsalot]

Just catching up with the thread - you might have already had a reply as I haven’t caught up yet QueenMabby so apologies if this is duplicating info. The numbers are the percentage of votes. Each party has a range so if you click on the line for each party you’ll see a low, average and high estimate. For JRM it is estimated he’ll get 39% - 54% of the votes.

[BigChocFrenzy]

I would not have taken out a loan, regardless of what anyone aid to me.

I was not coming from a place where aspiration or belief was usual

[BigChocFrenzy]

I was already being massively pressured by those around me not to "waste" 3 years that I could be earning

They were trying to push me into a job at Boots
I did Bsc, MSc in another discipline, STEM PhD - a big difference to what would have been without free uni

My mum was very worried that I wouldn't be earning, but could accept it as zero sum over 3 years
Taking a loan would have been impossible for what all around me were calling "highfalutin dreams"

[DustyDiamond]

It's not a proper loan though in the usual sense

It doesn't affect your credit rating, it doesn't impact on affordability checks for other lending services such as loans, HP, credit cards etc, it doesn't even need to be paid back until you're earning over a certain amount - and even then the repayments are tiny unless you start earning massive amounts

It's a very convoluted graduate tax, nothing more, and it means university is accessible to all, at any age

[TatianaLarina]

I totally agree with BCF.

I have a horror of debt myself and if I had come from a poorer background, and had to take out a loan, I just wouldn’t have gone to uni. When I went there were no fees.

[TatianaLarina]

This was an excellent post by a MNer on a different thread, which I kept:

This brings me so much anger to this day, and I took out my student loans from back in 2012 when 9k tuition fees were introduced.

I did a 3 year undergrad and I left with a 50k debt. I can live with my 50k student loan. Fine, the government wants to pass the cost on to students (not that I agree you they should be doing that) but fine.

But the interest rates are so unbelievably outrageous I have no NO CLUE how they've gotten away with completely shafting the whole (especially poorer) student population.

Do people realise the interest rate on student loans is 3% + RPI? It's currently at 6.6%

6.6% interest this year on a 50k loan. That's at least £3300.

I earn a £45k salary and I still won't cover the interest this year. I have been earning a fairly decent salary since graduating and I have never covered the yearly interest.

My outstanding debt goes up and up each year even though I'm paying them thousands in the year. I now owe them £55k after giving them around £6k since I graduated.

They will carry on taking 9% of my salary over 25k and 9% of all my bonuses for the next 30 years.

Anyone who took out max loan (aka from a poorer background) and ended up breaking the barrier through to a better life is fucked over the most. The wealthier families get away mostly scott free.

I think it's absolutely outrageous, and I'm not sure people realise how fucked over we're actually getting with interest rates. I have a debt that I can never even start to pay off. I will pay them probably double what I initially owed them over the next 30 years.

Honourable mention: they also charge max interest rates on your outstanding loan for the duration of your study.

[TatianaLarina]

That is the reality of fees.

[Alsohuman]

It's not a proper loan though in the usual sense

It still has to be repaid regardless of whether it’s a “proper” loan or not. I wouldn’t have done a degree course if it had entailed £50k of debt. I was brought up with a horror of debt.

[ArseDarkly]

I blame Martin Lewis

[DustyDiamond]

It still has to be repaid regardless of whether it’s a “proper” loan or not.

Only if you're earning over £25k a year, and it's wiped out after 30 years 🤷🏻‍♀️

9% of any salary over £25k is a graduate tax, nothing more


Interest on loan if you earn under £25,725 is 2.4% at the mo
Over £46,000 income the interest is 5.4%
(The 3% + RPI is applicable for the duration of course - thereafter, only if your income is greater than £46,000)

[DustyDiamond]

I do agree that the interest added is excessive & this should be addressed, and also it's not fair that interest is added whilst still studying - it should start after the course has concluded.

However, I do agree with fees overall.

[ArseDarkly]

it's wiped out after 30 years
Great!

[Alsohuman]

If it’s a graduate tax, there should be no question of interest. £3k a year was reasonable, the current levels are scandalous.

[tobee]

There was a really bad stigma to having debt not that long ago. Now most people have at least a little debt; having a credit card to pay off each month people don't even see as debt. Now, if you've been to university, it's pretty much impossible not to have debt, for at least some years.

Maybe more a point about society rather than an overt political point.

[tobee]

I find it stunning now that I had an entirely free education. In that, at the time, I had no idea it would not be the same for future generations. Even though I did know that US students paid fees.

I find it amazing that, for my kids , accruing debt from 18 is normalised.

[mathanxiety]

It can't be an interest free graduate tax because it was conceived as a revival of the olde timey tax farming system. Tranches of loans are bundled and sold to investors for a certain amount on the £ per loan. The government pockets less than it would if the entire principal plus interest were to be repaid over time but possibly more and definitely far sooner than it might gain if it depended on consistent repayments over 30 years. The investor pockets the repayments until the 30 year life of the loan is up. Your loan could be sold to many different investors over the course of its lifetime.

[The80sweregreat]

It's off topic , but my son (22) was starting to pay his uni loans back but his been made redundant this week. Do they just take it from his earnings or will he need to ring them up and tell them he hasn't a job at the moment? His only paid a bit back up to now as only been there 18 months and now job hunting again.

[DustyDiamond]

I was looking a gov.uk about repayment of loans etc 80sweregreat

There's info on there about what happens if you are not earning for any reason

[The80sweregreat]

Dusty, thank you. His gutted about his job and a bit down. The young can't seem to get going with a career these days. It's tough for them.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Latest gfs model is a lot less guns ho about snow on the 12th. Some snow around, but not the blanket fest it showed before.
As ever, keeping an eye on it!

[DustyDiamond]

Bless him xx

Hopefully he'll find something else soon 💐

Had another quick nosey around the subject after seeing your post this morning & it seems to suggest that you only pay if above the threshold so any periods where you're below your repayments are suspended

I might have misunderstood obvs but I don't think it's a case of 'once you start paying you don't stop'.

He should be able to update his employment details on the govt gateway thing via the gov.uk page I think?

[The80sweregreat]

I'll have a look today. His so upset but others have been made redundant too so his not alone. First proper job out of uni too.
It's been doom and gloom end of this year.

[Clavinova]

Dominic Raab being forced to deny being that "Dominic Raab" that co-wrote a pamphlet pushing NHS privatisation

I've just googled the pamphlet/book - it's available on Amazon;
"After the Coalition Paperback" – 8 Sep 2011

From the free to view introduction;

"The Conservative Party is fully committed to a National Health Service which is free at the point of delivery and accessible to all. However, this commitment does not mean that the NHS services should be trammelled by vested interests which have led to it becoming the third largest workforce in the world, employing more managers than doctors."