Westministenders: Promises, promises

[BigChocFrenzy]

We should see the party manifestos soon
in 2017, that changed the election

So far, Tory and Labour have been competing for who can offer the most spending on the NHS

Labour have been giving tantalising glimpses of free dental care and free broadband

The Tories have been hinting at tax cuts, as well as public spending

The polls suggest the public like all of the above,
but also that Brexit is the most important issue

25 days to go, still all to play for

Westministenders' Abbreviations:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation?msgid=84503730

https://news.sky.com/story/breakup-of-uk-a-price-worth-paying-for-brexit-say-leave-voters-in-poll-11863830

Leave voters were asked if they thought Scotland becoming independent would be a price worth paying for delivering Brexit

41% said yes, while only 18% said no.
...
Professor Sir Tom Devine, of the University of Edinburgh, said that, in the debate on Scotland's future and the future of the United Kingdom,
the English nationalist voice would be most powerful.

"It's always been my view that if the union comes to an end, it will come to an end because of either English indifference or hostility"
....
England was the powerhouse behind the Brexit vote and is pivotal in preserving the UK.

If the kingdom's biggest and most powerful partner decided it didn't have a future, then it wouldn't have one.

It’s not light at 6.30am, is it?

cendrillon I understand how the electoral system works thank you, and all of us on here are under no illusions that we are probably going to have a Tory government on 13th December.

I'm taking objection to the fact that you stated this thread is out of touch with general political opinion. If 60% of people do not want to vote Tory and this thread is generally anti-Tory then it's not out of touch is it?!

is it the fact that the sun is out shockingly early in that picture?

If 60% of people do not want to vote Tory and this thread is generally anti-Tory then it's not out of touch is it?

If you bothered reading, I’ve already answered that. At least 90% of the posts on here are anti-Tory, whereas the Tory vote of over 40% plus Tory-inclined voters such as BXP voters and Leavers from other parties would imply that around half the country is not anti-Tory.

And like with the voting public we have a range of views and opinions what we dont have time or patience is idiocy and dogma, (im not that self unaware people )

Did I imagine it or isn’t Farage anti Tory these days?

sunrise was 7.26 this morning

Calling pp "raving loonies" is an excellent way to convince them that Tories are nice really

ntbo, people have different aims and priorities for the country
and noone has ever claimed that Mumsnet - a site that is predominantly female, young, above average educated - is in any way a typical cross-section of the general public

However, due to the attention we get paid at GEs and the Tory indignation at the anti-Tory views,
many evidently think that MN is an important demographic to woo.

So far, the standard of wooing here suggests they need a lot of Workington men

And now Corbyn’s finally being challenged in public on the antisemitism in the Labour Party that has mysteriously gone from minimal to virulent in just a few years of his leadership:

Laura Kuenssberg
@bbclaurak

First applause during Corbyn session here when audience member asks him to say why Labour is 'for the many not the Jew', confronting him on anti-semitism

12:00 pm · 18 Nov 2019

Two really odious people fall out
but the country benefits
www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18042839.nigel-farage-apologises-ex-saints-chairman-brexit-party-mep-rupert-lowe-pulls-candidate/

Sunglasses - I will vote for Labour at this election.

Thank you for your more balanced post just now though. It was so much more readable than the vitriolic bile some people spew. The stuff that is like a vicious mosquito hovering about.

I agree all Labour's free stuff is a bit crazy. I can see why you might feel that Labour have lost the plot. I take it all with a pinch of salt though. Elections have always been like this haven't they. Full of ideas and promises. I used to shut my ears to it all. I'm only paying attention this time because now it feels so much more important.

The Tories have lost the plot too haven't they? And I don't think you can take any of that with a pinch of salt. How can you not worry about the damage that they've done to the country. It doesn't compare to anything hypothetical. Yes Corbyn isn't ideal - but Boris! He has a huge history of lies and deceit. He's broken the law and doesn't give a damn. He's hiding and refusing to impart important information that the country needs to know.There literally is evidence after evidence of him being a nasty piece of work - and the same applies to those around him. Priti Patel - JRM, Gove - they are all vile.

I don't think anyone on here is a raving loony - apart from perhaps Cendrillon and her pals. I think this is a discussion thread for those that are disillusioned with the current state of affairs. And seeing as the Tories are in power at the moment and have been for the last 9 years - they are the ones most responsible.

The Brexit Arms thread might be a better place to read and post if you'd prefer to hear opinions similar to your own?

I mean, I'm not resigned to a Tory maj. on 13th Dec.

These polls are very poor indicators of anything and I'm suspecting the constituency outcomes will be very dramatic in a few ways.
It's a little reminiscent of Major and his 'bastards' and folk just getting sick of Tory corruption, nasty individuals and incompetence. There's no Blair as a 1997 alternative, but still.....

And IF it IS a Brexit 'binary' election, we have the "will of the people" to Remain/2nd Referendum in a majority.

Looking at the people surrounding Raab, I don't think they are quite the age group who will be unleashing Britain's potential, and I say this as an older poster myself, but probably younger than the ones he was surrounded with.

Most people don't just give up their beliefs, even if they think their side will lose this time

e.g. Tory supporters in 1997 and the following years kept being Tory
If they'd all given up and joined the LDems, there never would have been a Tory govt again and the party would have dissolved long ago.

The current insults are comparable to the demonisation the 1945 Labour party faced in the GE

• the GE that enabled them to create the Welfare State and the NHS - threats of doom from the far more effective Churchill

So Tory outrage is no indicator of whether policies will work or how dangerous / virtuous Labour politicians are,
just an indicator they are furious at the better off paying more in taxes for it.

I get that a few posters on here are anti-labour and very anti-Corbyn. Your opinions are your opinions, but if you want to win hearts, minds, and votes than you need to sell the positives of the Tories or LibDems or Monster Raving Looney party or whomever it is you want us to vote for. Or are you just trying to put people off voting completely?

Funny how Tories keep posting about Labour anti-Semitism, but ignore Tory Islamophobia

To redress the balamnce:

Several Muslim Conservative politicians & members have tried to get the party to address its Islamophobia problem:

Sajid Javid, Chancellor of the Exchequer

During the Tory leadership election, called for an enquiry into Islamophobia within the Tory Party.
BJ - and the other contenders - agreed

Now BJ is leader, that's another promise that disappeared
when will the Tory Islamophobia enquiry happen ?

Has the findings of this report been in the MSM anywhere?

Baroness Warsi, former Conservative Party co-chair:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SayeedaWarsi,,_BaronessWarsi#Resignation

In May 2018, Warsi, who had been raising the issue of Islamophobiaa^ within the party for more than two years,
stated that
(then) Prime Minister Theresa May should publicly acknowledge that Islamophobia is a problem in the Conservative Party
and that the party was in denial about the problem.

In a statement she said:
"Up to now, sadly, there are certain parts of the party that have been in denial about this issue."[69][70]

She told Business Insiderr^:
"It's very widespread.
It exists right from the grassroots, all the way up to the top"
and claimed Conservative leaders are not taking the problem seriously because
"they don't think it is going to damage them because that community doesn't vote for them in any great numbers."
[71][72]

In July, a week after the Muslim Council of Britain repeated its call for an independent inquiry into Islamophobia and accused the Conservatives of turning blind eye to Islamophobia claims,

[73] Warsi called on the Conservatives to launch a "full independent inquiry" into Islamophobia in the party
and warned the Conservatives were pursuing a politically damaging policy of denial about the problem in its own ranks.

Full marks to the posters who spotted that it's pitch black in Oxshott at 6:30am today.

Well, on planet earth, leastways. Not so sure about planet Tory.

www.thetimeandplace.info/uk/oxshott-surrey

BigChoc

Your commitment to whataboutery is as strong as ever. The fact remains that it’s Labour that is the only party other than the BNP that has ever been placed under formal investigation by the EHRC!

I’m sure you’ll keep pressing us all to vote Labour all the same, right? I mean, what does it matter that the party that proclaims itself the champion of anti-racism is stuffed with, er, racists when there’s free broadband to be had?

I know the conversation has moved on to other things. So many things the Tories should be outraged about, but aren't. Even some stuff that used to trigger outrage . Was he even divorced when he moved into no 10 with one of his daughter's contemporaries? I hope Carrie walks out soon over the Arcuri stuff.

* Re Dusty's comment I thought that it was very telling that this was the sort of person BJ had chosen to 'spend time' with for 3 years.*

It's telling in so far as he's just another absent selfish husband and father like those on the relationships board. Wife holding down high profile, pressured job whilst juggling (at least in the holidays?) demands of four children, with exams, social lives, sports, subject choices, Uni choices, cancer treatment etc.

DH in on going cliche shirks responsibilities and pursues, once again, the easy youthful flattery of attractive, energetic, vibrant, positive, praising admirer/ groupie.

But the fact he's a serial adulterer is just as acceptable to the Tory voter as the Islamaphobia is.

Adulterous succession of women- ok.
Lying - ok.
Trying to circumvent Parliamentary process - ok.
Previous support for GBH threats- ok.
Spending public money on ads and electioneering- ok
Not involved in one child's life- ok
Taking money from Russians- ok
Suppressing government reports- ok

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/18/uk-social-security-payments-at-lowest-level-since-launch-of-welfare-state

Social security payments have hit their lowest level since the launch of the welfare state,
excluding millions from mainstream society and fuelling food bank use, according to research.

The £73 standard weekly allowance for universal credit, the government’s flagship benefit claimed by 2.3 million people, is now equivalent to 12.5% of median earnings.

By contrast, when unemployment benefit was introduced in 1948 it was worth 20%.

As a result, millions are being “excluded from mainstream society, with the basic goods and amenities needed to survive let alone thrive increasingly out of their grip”,
the study by the IPPR thinktank said.

The figures come as a senior government adviser said economic insecurity had become “the new normal”
and polling showed a third of middle-class voters feared a slump in living standards in the next decade.
....
More than half of people in all social groups think the government should do more “to people to help them become more financially secure”,

according to separate polling published on Monday by the Royal Society of Arts (RSA).
< presumably in the 60% not voting Tory ? >

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