Westminstenders: The Non-Pact Pact

[RedToothBrush]

The Brexit Party and the Conservatives have agreed a trumpian pact to no deal. Led by the ERG.

They don't want you to know its a pact because the Conservatives still want One Nation Conservatives types to believe they are still One Nation Conservatives, simply because they say they are. They are not.

The Brexit Party won't stand any candidates in a Conservative held seat. But don't be surprised if there isn't more Non-Pact tactical stepping aside. This of course won't be a Pact. Cos the Brexit Party say its not. And the Conservative Party say its not.

The Liberal Democrats, Plaid and the Greens are in an electoral pact. They say they are in an electoral pact and have published a list.

Meanwhile the Labour Party isn't in a Pact. But there is still talk that in key seats that someone (either the LDs or Labour) should stand aside to try and deseat key Conservatives. This won't happen because the Lib Dems and Labour are not in a pact. And when they say they are not in a pact they aren't.

If after an election we have a hung parliament then either the Conservatives or Labour who are not in a pact and say they will never be in a pact, will try and woo someone to a kingmaker and be in government with them, probably on a supply and demand basis rather than coalition. They'll deny this but we kind of know how this goes...

Optimistic PMK. I’m just not keeping up at the moment.

Does it not occur to you that if your stating all the things you consider are so wrong with the Tory Party, like they are monsters, but Labour are not way ahead in the polls, the Labour have way more problems and need to sort themselves out.

?

Labour and the Lib Dems need to wise up, fast.

I think on the ground, things will be a lot more pragmatic, and in those constituencies where one party looks the strongest, the other won't campaign too hard.

Personally, I wish we could have the co-operation of the Lib-Lab pact days back....

Why is all this [Farage/Tory pact] ok with the Tory faithful? Why?

Because sadly, if they are like the Tories I know, they don't really question - they really would be horrified if they did so. Otherwise, they are perfectly decent people. I have spent time telling with them at previous elections, and come away firmly agreeing with Jo Cox, that we have more in common than divides us.

(Tory) government flogged off the UKs Government Pipeline and Storage System to a Spanish company back in 2015 for a song, and is now paying a Kings Ransom to rent it back ?

I wonder who owns that Spanish company, DGR.

Just I find your articles really encouraging thank you! I think on this thread (which I think is mainly affluent and southern, and babyboomer generation? ) there are very few corbyn supporters but in person I know plenty - mainly younger people newly attracted to labour in the last few years like me but also some older labour voters too who really struggled to support labour through the blair years. It is very labour-y round here anyway so I appreciate that's not reflective of the nation but just to tell another narrative. We are all tearing our hair out at the media right now... we just got to keep talking to people, am hugely admiring of anyone on here canvassing right now

We just need to make sure everyone votes! The tactical voting plots make my head spin, plus don't apply to in my seat, so I'm just doing to concentrate on trying to get people registered I think.

Well I tried to print off a load of those register to vote posters yesterday as there are loads of transient workers in hospital who move house a lot... could not find a working printer, then everyone was too sick

That about sums up the NHS right now!!

I'll try again next shift!

Cat I'm sorry you're sad. I oscillate between fear and hope!

but Labour are not way ahead in the polls, the Labour have way more problems and need to sort themselves out.

I recollect that the Tories were way ahead in 2017, and that the MSM was full on anti-Corbyn. Yet on the ground, people were attending his rallies, and surprise, surprise, he denied May her majority, which took most pollsters by surprise. So what is happening and what is reported, are not the same.

I don't know why, but I am really shocked at the bbc doctoring footage thing.

Oh look who the biggest share holders are, DGR. A British private equity firm.

CVC Capital Partners is a British private equity firm with approximately US$111 billion in secured commitments since inception across European and Asian private equity, credit and growth funds.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVC_Capital_Partners

lonelyplanetmum I think it's part lack of knowledge and part not realising what's going on.
I know my MIL would be very quick to come and say that we actually don't know what's going on and there must be some good reasons for x and y to happen. Because she still deeply trust governemnts to be decent and do the right thing.

mummy tbh I cant vote in the GE so have no interest in defending one side or the other. But I think that all of those are herrendous. And they are things THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO THE COUNTRY
The Labour party, I would have exactly the same attitude if they were doing anything like this. However, in the last 10 years, they havent implemented any policies, and not policies that have led to the DEATH of people.
Atm I feel that in the grand skim of things, Labour is less worse. It doesnt mean there isnt any issue. There always is. Anti semitism is one of them (just like there is a strong islamophobia in the Tories). If they were going against human rights, putiing in place policies that would put people's life in danger, then I would have the same response. So far, I havent seen any policies like this. Just a deep fear of socialism (conflated with communism when they are totally different things)

But Corbyn was at the height of his power at that point, he had not been found out to have a fence he sat on and carries everywhere .
Corbyn now has feet of clay, people know this, and he is not in charge of his party.

Corbyn was not at the height of his power in 2017, exactly the same things were said about him then, and the papers ran multiple page smear campaigns on him in the days running up to the election, and the talk on the DAY of the election (including on this thread which I went back and read the other day!) was of how large the Tory majority would be 40 or 100

People really are re-writing history on what happened in 2017! It was a massive shock because everyone believed the media's narratives. The media clearly have a lot to lose if they have to pay their taxes

In contrast I know some people who voted for May because she seemed like a decent sort and "nice for a tory", i don't believe anyone could say the same for the Johnson-Farage double bill

The polls worry me but I also find them very difficult to believe?? I think you got to look at who's paying for them. The observer one (who are more anti-corbyn than even the Mail) is particularly bad

Why is all this [Farage/Tory pact] ok with the Tory faithful? Why?

Because they believe what they hear on TV and what they hear is that there is NO AGREEMENT between the Tories and NJ.
Vert few people soend even half the time listening to political news than anyone reading these threads, let alone posting in them.
See how some Toty voters, who were relying on benefits etc... to survive, were horrified when DC introduced UC and so on.

However, I also think that people are not stupid and they see what is happening around them. They see the increase on food banks. They see the increase in homlessness. They see the queues to see a GP (and how they just give up trying to go and see someone). And they see the lies.

Does Farage think northerners are idiots? So he'll stand down in the south but rely on northerners not noticing he's done a pact with Tories?

mummy Because BJ is in control on his own party? Is that why so many 'high ranking' and well known tories defected then?

I agree about 2017 (and actually about the referendum too). Polls dont seem to be able to actually capture whats going on.
Besides, having a wide majority in the number of votes doesnt give you a vast majority in HoC either. Its more complex than that thanks to the FPTP system and the way constituencies are set up (No idea if they favour one side or the other atm btw)

It was a massive shock because everyone believed the media's narratives.

Not to everyone though. DB went along to one of Corbyn's rallies and it was packed out, so he realised that what the press were reporting wasn't necessarily true.

Oh yes there was never any doubt about Theresa May's landslide victory in 2017.

Just seen on Twitter:

"My husband tells me a conversation with 12 City law firm partners yesterday was enlightening: not one will be voting Tory this time."

(This is totally believable based on my own experience working with Tory voters. I'm at a conference on 12/12 and it'll be interesting to see if people talk about it).

NB the problem of course is that at least some of these people will live in London constituencies that vote Labour already. You don't just need Tories to vote LAB or LD, you need them to vote in the right places.

The Leave Campaign, especially the Daily Telegraph, have been relentlessly pushing the line that Juncker is a drunk.

People in glass houses....

"My husband tells me a conversation with 12 City law firm partners yesterday was enlightening: not one will be voting Tory this time."

The $1,000,000 question though is are they voting at all ?

That is what I mean, Corbyn had a surge of voters behind him, that believed his promises, the students vote was on his side, but time has shown him to not be as he was sold, people will not be fooled a second time, he lied about respecting the vote and about many other things .
Labour have now shown their spend , spend , spend ideas. The very people he needed to vote him in are now worried about him bankrupting the UK.
His we will get a great deal, then let you vote it away is not going down well, as it is a plan with no firm deals.

DP has a load of soft tory mates down south from childhood, they earn £££ in finances and that. They say they won't vote for johnson. They all voted remain

in recent years they've very much stopped calling me hysterical for saying the Tories will destroy the NHS. THanks lads. (Is that what they call mansplaining? I'm on the fucking front line!!)

I think Corbyn still has the student vote.
And he has a green new deal. Younger people are far more bothered about climate than brexit in my experience

The $1,000,000 question though is are they voting at all ?

I'd be very surprised if this sort of voter did not cast a vote in a general election. I would be prepared to bet that turnout among senior lawyers or senior managers in industry is well above national average turnout rates. That isn't going to change.

But like I said, if these are London lawyers many of them probably live in Labour constituencies anyway.