Westminstenders: The Non-Pact Pact

[RedToothBrush]

The Brexit Party and the Conservatives have agreed a trumpian pact to no deal. Led by the ERG.

They don't want you to know its a pact because the Conservatives still want One Nation Conservatives types to believe they are still One Nation Conservatives, simply because they say they are. They are not.

The Brexit Party won't stand any candidates in a Conservative held seat. But don't be surprised if there isn't more Non-Pact tactical stepping aside. This of course won't be a Pact. Cos the Brexit Party say its not. And the Conservative Party say its not.

The Liberal Democrats, Plaid and the Greens are in an electoral pact. They say they are in an electoral pact and have published a list.

Meanwhile the Labour Party isn't in a Pact. But there is still talk that in key seats that someone (either the LDs or Labour) should stand aside to try and deseat key Conservatives. This won't happen because the Lib Dems and Labour are not in a pact. And when they say they are not in a pact they aren't.

If after an election we have a hung parliament then either the Conservatives or Labour who are not in a pact and say they will never be in a pact, will try and woo someone to a kingmaker and be in government with them, probably on a supply and demand basis rather than coalition. They'll deny this but we kind of know how this goes...

Just to remind you all about the absolute Triumph of the culmination of Theresa May's 2017 Campaign .....
this was her last public engagement before polling opened
www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15332944.photos-prime-minister-visits-southampton-less-24-hours-voting-begins/

fantastic stuff I think you will agree

If it came out as an all out Remain party they telling those MP's that are in leave seats to basically go fuck themselves, and how will that jeal any division?

Absolutely, it’s a one-nation approach and I don’t have a particular issue with it... but it does mean that, almost by definition, Labour is not a
Remain party.

Citation needed

It’s evidenced by every person who says they can’t bring themselves to vote for Corbyn’s Labour. And that’s life long Labour supporters and members let alone the likes of me who have no one else to vote for.

I also can see the logic of Labour's position.

But by supporting creating their own version of Brexit and then saying they will try and persuade people to vote for it in a 2nd referendum they really aren't a remain party.

Actually to be fair they aren't a leave party either because some MPs have been clear they would push for remain at the PV.

imo, Labour are not the party of Remain:
they are the party with PV as policy - because 80-90% of their MPs are Remainers and fought for this

Labour would give a choice of Remain vs soft Brexit

I've no problem with Corbyn staying neutral in a ref, in fact I'd prefer all MPs to be free to campaign for either side

We should have learned from the 1975 & 2016 refs:

If a PM supports one side in a ref, than some voters only see a big red "Fuck Off" button to him

Harold Wilson stayed neutral on the referendum on his renegotiated deal, so it wasn't associated with him or Labour - hence Tories could campaign for it and we won massively

Some just wanted Cameron & austerity to fuck off in 2016
Not the majority of Leavers, but enough to swing it.

I agree in part Oaken but my point is even if the LibDems are the party of Remain their not going to get enough MP's to bend parliament to their will (I do agree with those that say if they got a majority then they have a mandate to revoke) so they say that they are the party of Remain and that they want a PV, well Corbyn has already guaranteed a PV if he gets in

Spot on BCF spot on

Corbyn is preventing some floating voters from choosing Labour,
but as Starmer & co can hardly hit him over the head and dump his corpse somewhere,
we have to live with the situation as it is.

Do I wish Starmer were leader now ?
Of course I do
But if wishes were horses .... pointless

Poster and of course Cendrillon & clavinova would be demonising Starmer just as much as they demonise Corbyn now

but some floating voters would, however grudgingly, accept Starmer but not Corbyn

The only answer is to have another vote to see whether this can be resolved one way or another.

Exactly and now that it will be a binding referendum and due to previous interference and overspending there will be a more robust method of dealing with any 'foul play'

I appreciate you’ll never see him through anything other than your rose tinted glasses, but surely it must be registering that so many people are saying they won’t support Labour because of Corbyn which means he is going to be the reason they can’t win the GE.

The question is whether some like KS would win more voters from centrists than he’d lose from the far-left. Of course I don’t know for sure, but i can’t imagine very many on the left would desert a party led by KS if pitted against BJ.... Yet he’d probably sweep up half of the current LD voters along with a sprinkling of Tories too!

It is the 3 main UK party leaders that are so crap

The actual Brexit choices the main parties give are imo fair enough after a 52:48 ref result:

Tory - very hard or No Deal Brexit, no PV
Labour - PV on Remain vs softer Brexit
LDem - Revoke, no PV

Corbyn is preventing some floating voters from choosing Labour

It’s much worse than that - he is preventing some life long Labour supporters voting for their party.

How anyone, especially those who want Labour to prevent a Tory majority, can defend that is entirely beyond me.

Poster and of course Cendrillon & clavinova would be demonising Starmer just as much as they demonise Corbyn now

Even if they did, any attacks wouldn’t have nearly the same sting as current attacks do on JC

The Tories never had a problem telling their Remain MPs to go F themselves!

My remain Tory MP hasn’t been told to fuck himself, despite the grassroots attempting to get him deselected, they’re now beside themselves because they can’t vote Brexit Party.

Ds1s politics tutor has told them that the bxp standing in only labour constituencies could actually help labour...
It sort of works the other way in some places where not standing against the Tories could help Labour too. Round here UKIP mopped up a lot of votes from Labour up until 2017. Whilst some voters went back to the Tories, more swung back to Labour. There's a feeling now that Labour have got their best chance since 1997. It'll take work and is still a long shot but it's helped at least in the feelz.

Ex-Tories are a very fragile base for longterm Labour voting
However, for this one crucial Brexit GE, they are important

There is some evidence that some hard left Labour voters stayed home
and a few voted for Revolutionary Communists (the RC who now support BXP or Tory !)

Corbyn's unexpected boost in 2017 may have been partly due to them voting Labour for the first time in many years,
not just to May's shambles

This time, they may be out-weighed by rightwing labour voters - and also angry Lexiters - voting for other parties

That's another issue:
Corbyn managed to straddle the fence in 2017, but promising a PV will definitely have lost him some Lexiters
Labour calculation is that otherwise they would lose too many Labour Remainers

This GE will be v interesting to analyse for months to come, picking out all the voting trends
< nerd alert >

Tusk has given his final speech as EuCo president. Had a few words to say about Brexit, inevitably ...

bear It's not that anyone is defending the choice of Corbyn, merely that he is there and we can do nothing at this stage
It's facing facts, instead of dreaming of an alternate reality with Starmer leading them

The attempts at a VoNC by the PLP and the 2nd leadership challenge both failed
All they did was to wound Labour and give more ammunition to the Tories
They are impossible to repeat this side of a GE

If the Tories win as expected, Corbyn would almost certainly step down - if not, then that's the time for another challenge

What he says is so true and so sad...

Tusk saying don't give up
A loyal friend to the end
We'll miss his support in future negotiations

(((((( Donald Tusk )))))))

Jonathan Lis
@jonlis1
· 4h
This could prove the turning point for the Lib Dems. On my timeline alone I’ve seen dozens of loyal Lib Dems and ex-Labour converts vow they’ll never vote for the party again. twitter.com/paulbranditv/s…

It's facing facts, instead of dreaming of an alternate reality with Starmer leading them

The fact is Corbyn is the reason Labour have pretty much no chance of winning the GE thus handing it to the Tories.

I get that it can’t be changed now but discussing it is no more pointless than berating everything BJ does.

This could prove the turning point for the Lib Dems. On my timeline alone I’ve seen dozens of loyal Lib Dems and ex-Labour converts vow they’ll never vote for the party again.

Ooh yes, dozens of tweets on a Labour activist’s timeline have spoken - they might as well disband now!