To feel so fucking depressed and angry about brexit?

[ssd]

I'm Scottish. I voted to remain. It feels like nothing I vote for matters. I despise Farage and Johnstone. I despise the call for sovereignty certain parts of England still believe in. I despise of the right wing media.

I really feel this country is fucked, unless you have money behind you and beside you.

We are tiny compared to US and China, with trade deals, do you think they’ll be kind?or are we going to be effectively owned by them?
Are other small independent countries like Japan or New Zealand owned by them? No. And nor will we be.

A society where we are inward looking, protectionist, xenophobic will affect your DC.
The EU is protectionist. The Tories are not. If you are going to create a fearful fictional future for othet peoples' kids at least be consistent.

Many (racist, retired) people here voted leave and will do again
Jesus. Why not learn a bit of respect for the human beings around you?

Er I for one won't be "learning" to respect racists thanks.
There's barely an attempt these days to argue that Brexit will improve our lives - just increasingly threadbare appeals to "respect" for an illegally conducted vote.

Wimbledonna true but it’s just when I hear that parts of our nhs are being sold to US and China for profit or when I hear MPs saying the way we will secure trade deals with US, China and India will be through handing out Visas.

How do you know they are racist? And wtf has being retired got to do with anything? I don't say this lightly, but grow up.

What a delightful thread.

Are other small independent countries like Japan or New Zealand owned by them? No. And nor will we be.

NZ is a political and economic minnow.

Japan is twice our size. It also became wealthy in large part down to intervention from the US after the war who wanted to contain Japanese aggression.

Working hours in Japan are grim and not something to aspire to.

From another thread.

www.politico.eu/article/brexit-anxiety-disorder-britain-middle-class/amp/

Here's a good link showing how other people's DC are affected.

My DC already have been. DD's partner lost a placement directly as a result of Brexit.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTIPx0lI6pb-3Tn-3D6uNJNyKcCd-A8uPMxViagyJAR9T87ZmnSdAEPCzp5ljlNYoUNdxJiJqQdBm7b/pubhtml

"It is also something many of them feel can be blamed on those over whom Britain’s educated professionals usually have day-to-day political, economic and social control — the working-class, provincial, poor and elderly who were over-represented among Leave voters"

Yep. The hand wringing and the disbelief on here comes from a kind of spoilt anger.

An observation to all of this. At no point during the referendum campaign was there really any campaigning based upon what the benefits of the EU are. It was like the remain camp didn't have any spirit apart from it was easier to stay....in fact that still remains the narrative of the remainders which seems based on e damage being done to the country by the uncertainty.

If the EU is so wonderful, then espouse the benefits of it (there are some by the way) but even during this election...there isn't anything being mentioned.

I get it from Labour as in reality Corbyn is a committed leaver despite his lies to the opposite.

The Remain campaign was awful. I agree, no benefits were publicised.

It really isn’t about losing, it’s about throwing ourselves into a chaotic unpredictable undeniable mess which has dominated our country for years now. And fwiw the only leave voters I know are either overtly racist or were taken in by the nhs bus. I’m not making that up, they are views they frequently express. Well, the bus one has gone quiet. Their only argument for Brexit is we won let’s get it done.

YANBU OP. I didn’t expect to still feel so sad and angry about it over three years on from the referendum but I do.

I understand why people voted leave, especially in areas that had essentially been left to rot by successive governments. I don’t think every leave voter is thick or racist or whatever. But nothing will ever stop me from believing that it was the biggest act of national self-harm in my lifetime, and that many of those who voted leave in protest will be the most disadvantaged by our going it alone. And whatever happens - hard Brexit, second referendum, better deal or any of the options - the damage has been done and the wounds of division will take generations to heal...if they ever do.

And it’s easier to paint a picture of a fantasy paradise than it is it point out the benefits of something we already have. The benefits of brexit were whatever anyone could think up and indeed lie about. The grass is always greener.
But please if any brexiters can reassure with firm facts and positive outcomes of brexit, please do let us know!

It really isn’t about losing, it’s about throwing ourselves into a chaotic unpredictable undeniable mess which has dominated our country for years now.

This exactly. People should be angry at the damage it has caused and will cause. The EU is just a scapegoat. People are losing the rights that membership of the EU gives them because voters were angry at the problems generally caused by the UK government.

What rights will the average person lose once we’ve left the EU?

I live in the north but work a lot in London. Is interesting to see the difference.

I know lots of people who voted Brexit. Interestingly of a spread of ages. What is driving them now is:

-The view that politicians think Democracy is fine as long as the right results were obtained
-The view it was the thick voters in the north who didn't understand it, they need to vote again
Trust in politicians and motives is pretty low, especially Labour with their can't make their minds up, please everyone approach.

• pretence it isn't about immigration...as Labour are saying. Immigration was a massive issue in the Midlands and North. Just speak to people who couldn't get their kids into the local schools they live near. Despite immigration souring from when Blair opened the doors, no planning was done for public services etc

Interestingly my London colleagues tend to be more:

• acceptance the campaign was crap and no one would ever understand benefits.....who would understand passporting of financial services for eg.

The thought that the leave voters need helping and a new vote would help them reflect on it. The remainders who sabotaged Brexit in parliament were doing so for the greater good.

If politicians could create this mess and not get out of it, it bodes poorly for competence in government. Also clear that despite what is a national crisis, politicians struggle to put the national good above party politics.

Let's see what December brings!

If the EU is so wonderful, then espouse the benefits of it (there are some by the way) but even during this election...there isn't anything being mentioned.

I'm still waiting too. Remainers waged a negative campaign during the referendum - all doom and gloom about leaving (most of which didn't actually happen such as emergency budget and tax rises the day after the result!). Same this time, nothing positive coming out of remainers/Libdems etc as to the virtues of the EU and the benefits we're supposed to be enjoying. Just the same old doom-mongering. Come on, Remainers, start shouting about all the goods things re the EU or you'll be losers again.

What rights will the average person lose once we’ve left the EU?

That depends entirely on what UK laws the new government decide to change doesn't it? All the EU rules/rights were ratified by the UK Parliament to bring into UK law, so it's within the power of the UK parliament to change/rescind/keep as they may agree. Some people seem to wrongly think that all such rights/rules will automatically disappear once we leave, but that's completely wrong - it all stays part of the UK laws and regulations until actively and democractically changed which could take years or it may be decided to leave most things as they are.

There is a very credible left wing Brexit case. It's not the one espoused by the most prominent Brexiteers, obviously - Brexit is a thousand different things to different people.

But it is eminently possible to view the EU as a neoliberal, austerity-backing, corporate-interested institution who waged an economic war of attrition against the Greeks (and others), based on economically unsound ideas woven up in a Germanic morality tale ("Northern Europe is GOOD and exports lots! Southern Europe is BAD and needs to be taught a lesson in how to manage their finances!").

I don't think Brexit is remotely a good idea, but I do think many have no concept of the true nature of the institution they so blindly defend.

The rights to have your educational qualifications recognized in other countries

That’s hardly a ‘right’ most people will worry about is it.
And as for borrowing money from the EU to build social projects, once we leave we’ll have more of our own money to spend on our own country, because we’ll no longer be propping up 27 other EU countries.

The rights to have your educational qualifications recognized in other countries

Huh? I have a colleague from USA and we recognise that she has a degree from Columbia?