To feel so fucking depressed and angry about brexit?

[ssd]

I'm Scottish. I voted to remain. It feels like nothing I vote for matters. I despise Farage and Johnstone. I despise the call for sovereignty certain parts of England still believe in. I despise of the right wing media.

I really feel this country is fucked, unless you have money behind you and beside you.

There is a very credible left wing Brexit case.

The left wing case is essentially that the EU is not protectionist enough, whereas the right wing case seems to be that it is both too protectionist and not protectionist enough. (Or something. I've yet to hear an intelligent conservative case for Brexit).

I think the left wing case is wrong but somewhat internally consistent; the right wing case involves believing (or at least claiming to believe) several contradictory things simultaneously.

And UK universities recognise qualifications from their international applicants? Am I missing something?

Huh? I have a colleague from USA and we recognise that she has a degree from Columbia?

In much of Europe if she wanted her qualification formally recognised (for jobs that require a specific educational level) she'd have to prove its equivalence.

And obviously it's much more of an issue for professional qualifications (law, medicine, accounting, engineering etc).

The left wing case is essentially that the EU is not protectionist enough

My issue with the EU, and particularly the Euro, is that it is an economically unsound structure built for German dominance, wrapped up in a morality tale about virtuous northerners and spendthrift feckless southerners.

The currency union actively supports German industrial policy, and penalises southern Europe in various ways. Yet the Germans double down on this and then blame the southern nation states for the issues caused by a structurally unsound union, with a narrative that comes uncomfortably close to basically saying the Greeks just don't know how to manage their own economy.

The EU has some noble aspects, but like all institutions it is now mostly about preserving and increasing its power. It is at least as much about German economic power, and French political power, as it is about anything else.

So do people with degrees from, say, the States not work in Europe then? of course they do

Remainers, start shouting about all the goods things re the EU

Peace in Europe, including Ireland.

And obviously it's much more of an issue for professional qualifications (law, medicine, accounting, engineering etc).

Some professional bodies (such as ACCA) are already international so their professional qualifications are already widely accepted in many different countries without needing any extra proof of equivalents etc.

At the end of the day, the people responsible for the current fiasco is the politicians over the last 20 years or so who happily blamed the EU for various aspects which they knew were unpopular to the electorate but they wanted to do anyway. Blaming the EU made it easier for them rather than explain and justify themselves to the electorate.

Take Blair and unlimited immigration. He had the power to restrict immigration from the newly admitted countries to the EU - some other EU member countries imposed restrictions. Blair made the conscious decision not to, WITHOUT any reference to the UK voters, as he wanted to "rub the right's noses in diversity". So, well done Blair, you contributed to the current fiasco!

That's just one example. There are lots of other unpopular aspects "suggested" by the EU, which were rubber stamped by UK's Parliament that could have been rejected or amended, but the UK parliament didn't want to listen to the voices of dissent within the UK and pushed them through Parliament instead.

It's too late now for the Remainers to argue all these unpopular aspects "could have" been stopped by our own Parliament. That fact is they were lazily rubber-stamped - the damage was done. Our politicians over the last 20 years were either too lazy to think for themselves and say no to the EU when they had the chance, or secretly wanted to adopt the EU rules/regulations but didn't want to admit that to the voters. At the end of the day, the Brexit vote was as much a kick in the teeth to our useless politicians of the last 20 years as it was to the EU.

Kazzyhoward

Agree 100%

The rot started with the Blair government.

Yes.
Brexit is 100% Blair’s fault.

In my opinion!

I visit businesses for work and visited an import, sales and distribution business a while ago. They imported one particular product from outside the EU then sold it across Europe, 88% of sales to other EU states. Half the staff worked in the offices, half in the warehouse, most of the staff were British and about half the warehouse staff from eastern Europe, the owner was also an EU citizen (by decent). As with the rest of the country half the staff voted leave, half remain, the Leavers were celebrating after the referendum. The owner told me the company is moving to the Netherlands as it's completely unsustainable in the UK after a no deal Brexit. He often overheard the staff demanding the government just walk away from the EU and go 'no deal'. Hard to feel sorry for the leave voters when the lose their jobs, the Remain voters have ever right to be furious with them as well. Ironically, the eastern Europeans will be free to follow the company to the Netherlands, the Brits won't because we have voted to strip ourselves of our rights as EU citizens. This is 100% because of Brexit, we were told companies would leave, this is the fault of leave voters.

There are people in my industry who essentially voted to export their own jobs to Eastern Europe.

I don't blame politicians for Brexit, I blame the people who voted for it. The information was all out there, they're not stupid (as they insist) they knew what they were voting for.

I visit all kings of businesses, I've met a few who are leaving/have left. That one just sticks in my mind because of the staff celebrating and demanding no deal Brexit now.

It baffles me how people can profess to be left wing and support us being in the EU, tbh. I’ve been a Lexiter from the start. It makes me a thick northerner apparently

“It feels like nothing I vote for matters.”

This is how a lot of leave voters feel. Let’s keep having referendums until you get the result you want. Your voice clearly matters more.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the leave voting employees from this company vote for the Brexit party in December, they'll blame the EU for the loss of their jobs.

One of my favourite Brexit threads on here was one where posters were thanking the EU for its benefits. From the first page, it was blatantly obvious that posters were very confused about what the EU did and thought it was synonymous with the UNCHR, NATO, etc.

That's not to say there aren't any benefits to EU membership, just that MN posters didn't seem aware of many of them and displayed a woeful lack of understanding of the EU. You could almost see the Remain campaign thinking 'great a positive thread about the EU' . . .then backing slowly away as they read it.

Do The People bear zero responsibility for whatever happens under the governments they bring to power?

Did Blair's manifesto include a pledge to offer unlimited immigration? Did it include a pledge to join an illegal war against Saddam Hussein?

The voters DID speak - they booted out Labour once all this came to light!