Westminstenders: The end of tribalism

[RedToothBrush]

There are signs that traditional party alignment might well have broken.

The Tories have split, labour are pretending they have not.

The pattern so far seems to be closely following the EU. This favours a Tory majority.

A long way to go.

It's a hugely difficult issue, at every level.

My dcs have a wonderful relationship with my pils. Very close. My pils are lovely people.

But...

They have always voted tory and ds1 (who is very respectful of them) is really really upset and struggling with the fact that they will be voting for Johnson and his policies.

It's so sad. Their stance has affected my respect for them over the years and now it's affecting how ds1 sees them too :(

Nothing to be done other than avoid discussing it with them.

Brexiters will ignore every other issue and vote for the party they think will bring that, so mostly Tory
People who want a Tory govt will also ignore everything else to vote Tory

Much easier for single issue voters

Remainers on these threads and those who want to keep out the Tories are not so single-minded
Hence might not vote for the local candidate with the best chance of achieving their aim

Far from a bubble, as some claim, posters on these threads have a range of other issues they balance wrt voting, different ditches to die in etc

No hive mind here !
It does make it complicated and possibly frustrating for some visitors

Not surprising there are so many cat fans on Westministenders
Trying to form a common strategy would be like herding cats !

I had a play with the Gina Miller website based on some constituencies I know.

Tottenham: no recommendation. Safe Labour seat with a strong remain MP (voted against triggering A50).

Somerset NE: no recommendation. Grease Smug's seat, includes a big chunk of Bristol commuter land, winnable by a coordinated opposition.

Wiltshire SW: no recommendation. Safe Tory seat, rosette on a donkey territory.

Don't really understand why parties can't work together in places like Somerset NE, it is absolutely winnable and it would be a big scalp.

Brexit means self immolation, and they all know it now. It would be better for Labour to let the Tories at it and then rescue the nation in a few years time..... apres la deluge. Corbyn will be long gone by then anyway.

Do the mopping up after the disaster, do not lead us into it.

I cannot really understand how anyone would think that Brexit is a great thing. But that's people for you. Things have gone very quiet on that front from what I can see.

Brexit was a call to arms. But it is receding a bit I think. Does anyone else think likewise?

I don’t have a lot of time for people who demand ‘proof’ of racism whoever the object. It indicates they don’t really understand how racism works. And are most invested in dismissing it. Abuse, bullying, freezing out, tone, manner, rudeness, dismissiveness, superiority etc is very difficult to prove.

Sorry I can't remember who originally posted this. Just adding my 2p worth here which is that, regrettably I think this issue of tone leaks into how the parties are perceived from the outside. I disliked Tony Blair when he took over from John Smith, but with the benefit of hindsight, I can see that one of his key skills was persuasiveness. It surprises me to see so little attention being paid to the need to win over the floating voter, and the psychology of influencing opinion. A 20 tweet thread which reads as a barrage of reasons why the author is considerably better at research 'than yowww' doesn't tend to persuade the fence-sitters imho, it makes them back off and chalk the author up as dismissive, sneering etc.

When it comes to election time in particular, what's the point of just preaching to the choir?

Yes, Outsomnia, I truly think many (ordinary) people have gone quiet on Brexit.

Alas, though, there is no political path away from it.

And so here we are, still chugging towards a - very visible now - iceberg.

Absolute madness.

☹️

The longer this goes on, the more I think about leaving.

Which countries are you considering moving to, Catfromjapan?

thecatfromjapan

Thanks. Good to hear that I am not alone in thinking this.

Brexit is a sham anyway.

At the moment it's just terror, minutewaltz.

I think about other. Oh tried and realise I wouldn't match their immigration criterIa (isn't that depressing?).

And I think about leaving London - and my heart starts sitting.

But ... I'm genuinely getting scared. Properly frightened at times. Seriously enough to have started considering options.

And I thought nothing could pride me from Lindon - which is my heart's abiding passion and my soul-mate.

Countries.

Splitting.

Not sitting

Why does Jo Maugham seem to hate Gina Miller so much?

Just read his twitter, looking for the bit about Nothing will save us from a Boris majority. Fortunately I couldn't find that bit because it would have thoroughly depressed me.

I don't know much about Gina Miller or Jo Maugham. Is there an obvious reason why he seems so annoyed with her?

Ash Sarkar
@AyoCaesar
·
5m
The Green Party have stood down in Chingford and Woodford Green to give
@faizashaheen
a clear run at unseating Iain Duncan Smith.

No, Dusty, I said nothing will save us from a Johnson majority.

Because all the tactical vote people are fighting.

There are 3 different tacticL vote sites.

Jo Maugham was taking issue with the data behind Gina Millar's.

Oh I see. That was it then, it was just the data that he had issue with.

And cat - it was you that said "'nothing will save us from a Johnson majority" - did you mean if he wins nothing will save us, rather than he definitely will win?

What do you mean by "Because all the tactical vote people are fighting." ?

Gosh I'm sorry. I feel I'm being very stupid at not following all of this.

I really hope that faizashaheen will unseat Ian Duncan Smith.

This is a video about her in the Guardian. I think she stands a very good chance of winning.

www.theguardian.com/global/video/2019/sep/18/ill-kick-out-iain-duncan-smith-because-of-austerity-he-inflicted-on-my-mum-video

Thecat I don’t know what your circumstances are but could you go to another just for a year or so and see how you get on?
I realise it isn’t as simple as that but although I wouldn’t like to leave UK permanently, I do have dreams of leaving for a couple of years.
I fear dreams they will remain!

No, it's me, I think, Dusty.

Policing hAs Johnson on a majority of some 100+ seats at the moment.

It looks as though the only way to prevent that is with tactical voting.

Sadly, the Labour Party has been particularly resistant to any kind of organised help of tactical voting.

So the electorate has to organise itself.

Currently, there are three tactical voting websites - and a lot of fighting about their suggestions and data.

So ... it's not looking as though tactical voting is going to be a walk in the park.

I mean, we have to hope but ... blimey, it's a bit tough right now.

Polling.

Well, it may come to that, eh?, minutewaltz.

Thank you Cat. I understand now.

I've been talking more and more to DD about all of this and whereas she is naively very supportive of Corbyn, I feel more and more enraged by him. I'm not sure why.

I said to DD tonight that I feel angry with his inflexibility and resistance to compromise. She was very forgiving and said that he was 70 after all and you'd expect someone of that age to be inflexible and stubborn!

I feel that I know enough about him now to be pretty certain that if there are numbers to form a government in order to keep the Conservatives out (sorry I don't know the best way of wording this)that Corbyn will be stubborn and refuse to compromise. It will be something like he'll only join forces if he can be leader - and none of the other parties will want him to be - and so we'll end up with Boris.

Could that happen? Please tell me it couldn't be possible.

Sadly I think we're going to end up with Boris. We absolutely shouldn't because of all his recent forever stumbling/lies/ignorance/ridiculous inanities (his 'oven ready' meal of Brexit he'll put in a microwave 🤦‍♀️) etc. but there you go. Centre / centre left vote split between Lab/LD/Greens etc, Right/Farther Right uniting behind Tories. Anticipating my depression on Dec 13th I've just applied for the HIGNFY special election show on the basis I might as well laugh until I cry.

I'm clinging to the memory of May polling what was expected to be a 100+ majority in spring 2017.