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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

OP posts:
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MockersthefeMANist · 08/11/2019 16:20

The suggestion was "The People who bombed the Kig David Hotel" were going to exterminate the Palestinians on the Nazi model.

Now you might think that the people in question are all dead, but "The People who bombed the King David Hotel" refers not to the bombers, who are all dead, but to "The People" who bombed it.

It's a well-known device.

placemats · 08/11/2019 16:21

I just knew that there would be a pact between Labour and the SNP. I think this is a great move.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/nicola-sturgeon-outlines-conditions-for-supporting-labour-minority-1-6365800

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 16:23

I totally agree with DGRosetti about the harm caused by shutting down conversations.

In principle I agree but part of the problem with Brexit coverage has been not enough shutting down of bollocks. Way too much air time has been given to lies in the interest of ‘balance’.

The liberal media has been caught on the hop as they’re used to balancing left vs right, whereas in this circumstance it’s true vs false.

Journalism 101 oft repeated since Brexit holds true:

If someone says it’s raining and another says it’s dry. Your job is not to quote them both but to look out the fucking window and find which is true.

tobee · 08/11/2019 16:23

Hooo WineBrewCakeThanks

For you after today's close encounters.

derxa · 08/11/2019 16:26

in Harlow (of all places) I don't understand what you mean

Bearbehind · 08/11/2019 16:29

I’ve posted this on the pub thread too

It is interesting how difficult it is for people to choose who to vote for.

The main 2 parties are pretty much as bad as each other IMO, for differing reasons.

The other parties don’t stand a chance of getting a majority government and we’ve proven we don’t do coalitions very well in the country

So how do you square that with people who have differing views on so many subjects, not least Brexit.

I mean it really can’t be in the overall interests for a lot of Leavers to vote Tory.

It’s becoming quite apparent on here that people who are on the same side re Brexit have massively differing opinions on just about every other political subject.

So where does it end?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/11/2019 16:37

Peter Saull
@petesaull
·
1h
BREAKING: Boris Johnson has told
@bbcnottingham
that there now WON'T be a specific inquiry into Islamophobia in the Conservative party. Instead, there will be a "general investigation into prejudice of all kinds." #GE2019

placemats · 08/11/2019 16:41

So where does it end?

Bear

Sometimes you have to start from the very beginning again. It's a very good place to start. before you start, I love The Sound of Music

Random18 · 08/11/2019 16:42

Bear it's why a GE was such a bad idea.

I really don't know where we go from here. But this ain't getting better for a very long time Angry

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 16:43

The suggestion was "The People who bombed the Kig David Hotel" were going to exterminate the Palestinians on the Nazi model.

Hmm

the actual text (not paraphrased as above) was:

QUOTE
Hawksbee blogged in September 2018: “The fear of many on the left is that the ideological successors of the bombers of the King David Hotel, the mass murderers who decimated Deir Yassin, would be quite happy to see a pogrom in Gaza and the West Bank, a Jewish final solution to the Palestine problem.”
END QUOTE

Which I read as being:

The fear of many on the left
-self explanatory, given I am a UK reader, applying UK context to "left"

is that the ideological successors of the bombers of the King David Hotel
-KDH was bombed in 1946 (I know this as a friends of my Dad was in Palestine at the time ...) by the political activists seeking a state of Israel.

the mass murderers who decimated Deir Yassin,
-Now I had to look this up. It's an atrocity where Zionist terrorists killed 600 Palestinian Arabs

would be quite happy to see a pogrom in Gaza and the West Bank
-I know the word "pogrom". Again seems self explanatory

a Jewish final solution to the Palestine problem
-suggesting that much as the Nazis tried to eradicate the Jews in Europe, then some Jews would like to eradicate Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.

????????

Can't see anything that's dripping with a hatred of Jews there. Critical ? Yes. Insensitively worded ? Certainly. Deliberately inflammatory ? Quite likely. A statement of fact ? Almost certainly not. An expression of how some might view the situation ? Almost certainly yes.

If I had to precis that for a pay-by-the-word telegram, it would be something like left fears extremism on right in Palestinian situation

However, the trick is working slightly, as I'm doubting myself now. Have I missed something terrible, and if so does that make me even more of an anti-semite than before ?

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 16:46

incidentally, portraying the Tories as Islamaphobic, and Labour as anti-semitic might actually attract more voters to each party for the wrong reasons than it would deter. Much as some shops "boycotted" South African fruit for entirely the wrong reasons in the 70s.

Alsohuman · 08/11/2019 17:03

I’ve just been given reason to believe my vote will actually make a difference. My Tory MP with a 14k majority has just been approved by the local association in the face of a grassroots petition to deselect him because he’s a remainer. The Brexiteers on Twitter are all frothing and encouraging BXP to target the seat. Which would be truly excellent as it may let the Labour candidate in.

Bearbehind · 08/11/2019 17:06

But we’re not at the beginning placemats, we’re in some dreadful limbo

I can’t see how this GE is going to move us on.

The likely result is a tiny majority Tory government or another precarious coalition, so they won’t be able to get much more done than previously.

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 17:07

My Tory MP with a 14k majority has just been approved by the local association in the face of a grassroots petition to deselect him because he’s a remainer.

What happened to Boris purge of the Remainers ? Or couldn't he even get that right ?

Jason118 · 08/11/2019 17:13

I'm a simple soul and I note the soul searching by many on who to vote for, based on their own life experiences. For me, this GE is very simple. It was called because of Brexit and will resolve Brexit whoever wins. Hence I will vote on Brexit and Brexit alone. If tories win we get their Brexit, if labour win we get a PV, if LibDems win (oh, they won't), but if it's a hung parliament there will be a PV to resolve the impasse. So I note all the other issues that concern me and I file them away for the next time I get to use my vote.

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 17:15

The likely result is a tiny majority Tory government or another precarious coalition, so they won’t be able to get much more done than previously.

I'd take that over Brexit anyday.

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 17:16

For me, this GE is very simple. It was called because of Brexit and will resolve Brexit whoever wins

Hmm
prettybird · 08/11/2019 17:16

At the moment it's a one-sided pact placemats Wink Labour claim to be having nothing to do with it, because they will be winning a majority HmmConfused

Nicola has said on a number of occasion now (and again today) that there's no point even picking up the phone if they're not going to deliver the Section 30 notice - and even then, it has to be without conditions (for example, "not next year").

She also pointed out at the launch that she is used to minority governments (as the SNP are themselves a minority government in the Scottish Parliament) so she is quite happy to support policies on a case by case basis.

Emilyontmoor · 08/11/2019 17:35

Hoo You think that is bad, how about this from the Octogenarian tendency "Plus he is a Marxist and would bring this country to it’s knees. Every young person intending to vote for him should be made to read Animal Farm and to study the history of the rise and fall of communism. Only China has thrived but at terrible cost to human life and freedoms." I'd respond but where do you start especially with the disadvantage of knowing anything at all about China......

Hoooo · 08/11/2019 17:37
Hmm
Emilyontmoor · 08/11/2019 17:39

or what is studied in schools......

Hoooo · 08/11/2019 17:41

Ds1 studied animal farm for his eng lit gcse this summer.
He has told me, often, how he sees parallels in the language and imagery used by the tories and bxp to europe of the 1930s...

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 17:43

especially with the disadvantage of knowing anything at all about China......

SELECT * FROM HISTORY WHERE SUBJECT ='CHINA'

Chang Kia Shek (sp ?)
Long March
Sino-Japanese war
Peoples Revolutionary Council
Cha-Cha
Chi-Chi
Gang of Four
Mrs Mao
Gunpowder
Opium Wars

Next 10 rows
Fu Manchu
Hong Hong
Cultural Revolution

Output halted.

tobee · 08/11/2019 17:52

It's my lovely nephew's birthday today. He is 14. Last time I saw him we had a lovely conversation about Animal Farm which he had just read at school. I'm looking forward to seeing him in a couple of hours to listen to more of his erudite thoughts that would shame many an adult.