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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

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GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 12:56

We expect better of the Labour Party. Saying "the other side are just as bad" is no excuse when the other side are a bunch of wankers.

Ah that old chestnut. Labour must be beyond reproach but the Tories get a free pass. Its the same sort of confused logic that absolves Martin McGuinness from being a prominent Republican throughout "the troubles" to peace maker but denounces Corbyn for meeting with Republicans 40 years ago.

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 12:57

Oh yes that old chestnut find a Jewish person to say AS is not a problem

I’m not prepared to have an argument with AS deniers. Listen to what Labour MPs are saying including Luciana Berger, Angela Eagle, Margaret Hodge. Listen to what the Labour Party whistleblowers said wrt top brass interference into investigations into AS - including director of strategy Iain McNicol, Seumas Milne and Jennie Formby.

Margaret Hodge’s perspective here:

What has happened under Corbyn is that antisemitism, which was always completely stamped on at the fringes, has been given permission to come into the mainstream and, like a cancer, is infecting and growing through the party,” she said.

“One of my real concerns is: what started off as absolutely the exception became the familiar and is now becoming systemic … Anyone who is really serious about zero-tolerance of antisemitism would close down constituencies where it happens.

“Just close them down. It has moved from individuals saying terrible things to motions being passed.”

The motions she refers to are where local parties have increasingly been expressing support for Chris Williamson, the MP suspended for suggesting Labour had been “too apologetic” about antisemitism, or rejecting the international accepted definition of antisemitism adopted by the party following a huge row.

She is also incandescent about the party’s approach to handling complaints of antisemitism, which has seen 12 members expelled and 96 suspended out of almost 673 complaints over a 10-month period.

The party is furious with me about this,” she said, whipping out a leaked copy of a disputes panel from July 2018 showing 47 examples of alleged antisemitism by Labour members.

One of the cases reads: “People are finding out how much power Jews have.” Another one: “It seems like the whole world is coming under Zionist control.” One describes a prison sentence for a former Nazi guard as a disgrace and accuses the BBC of “being overrun by Jews”. It continues: “Hatred of Jews is in my DNA.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/08/just-close-them-down-margaret-hodge-on-antisemitism-in-labour-branches

I never thought I would become a victim of Jew hatred from the hard left. I never dreamed that one year on the situation within the party would so dramatically deteriorate and that the antisemitism crisis in Labour would spiral out of control. In the last month I have been accused of being an operative for the Israeli embassy. Conspiracy theorists accuse me of running a cartel of “Nazi rabbis” and say that Jeremy Corbyn is the “final solution” to the Zionist question. I receive shameful attacks seeking to question my Jewish identity and express doubt about my family’s suffering under the Nazis.

Hateful language has now become part of mainstream political discourse. Antisemitism always existed on both the extreme right and the extreme left fringes. But under Corbynism it has been allowed to flourish in the mainstream.

The Labour party should be the natural home for Jews with its historic commitment to fighting racism, promoting equality and fostering international solidarity. Instead, it has become a hostile place. So much so that many Jews and lifelong activists have left the party, forced out by the toxic antisemitic culture.

Last week saw the departure of three Labour grandees from the House of Lords, including a former general secretary. A BBC Panorama programme featured young Labour activists and workers, the very people who should form Labour’s future but whose aspirations and hopes have been crushed by antisemitism and bullying in the Labour party. We saw a frightening display of deliberate denial by the party leadership. The way they have intimidated those calling out Jew hate echoes many of the dangerous populist forces that have surged across the west.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/17/antisemitism-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-margaret-hodge

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 12:58

Well given that Labour expect higher standards of Israel, it seems rather an appropriate chestnut.

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 13:00

We expect better of the Labour Party. Saying "the other side are just as bad" is no excuse when the other side are a bunch of wankers.

Yup. Racist wankers to boot.

CendrillonSings · 08/11/2019 13:02

Ah that old chestnut. Labour must be beyond reproach but the Tories get a free pass.

Except that Labour always sets themselves up as pious paragons of virtue, and so it makes perfect sense to hold them to the high standards for which they claim so much credit from the gullible.

Maybe you don't think it's a particular problem for a party that loudly proclaims anti-racism as the moral bedrock of their existence to be riddled with, er, racists...

It's almost as if they're colossal hypocrites!

GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 13:03

skwawkbox.org/2018/03/23/corbyns-voting-record-shows-mearone-smear-could-not-be-more-misleading/

However, Corbyn’s own track record in Parliament makes the attempt to attribute anything remotely antisemitic to Corbyn’s comment look extremely weak.

In 2003, Corbyn was among the first MPs to sign EDM 123, explicitly condemning antisemitism:

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 13:04

He's such a champion Hmm

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 13:07

Yep, its remarkably cognitive dissonance when tory supporters scream about Labours AS allegations but stay largely silent on all the allegations made towards the conservatives including those made by Baroness Warsi.

The criticism of Labour over AS has largely come from its own supporters, members and MPs. It’s no skin off the Tories’ nose if Labour implodes over AS.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 13:07

Except that Labour always sets themselves up as pious paragons of virtue

Nope its something generally concocted by opponents of the left or liberal values. Where do phrases like snowflake, bleeding heart liberals come from? Its not the left. In a right wing country like Britain caring about the poorest in society often leads to accusations of wanting to throw tax payers money at "scroungers."

derxa · 08/11/2019 13:08

but denounces Corbyn for meeting with Republicans 40 years ago.
Why was he meeting with them?

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 13:09

Fighting prejudice should be basic Labour. There shouldn't be an footnote saying "except when it's prejudice against Jews".

borntobequiet · 08/11/2019 13:10

Everybody sets themselves up as paragons of virtue. Not specific to Labour.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 13:10

Why was he meeting with them?

The same reason consecutive British governments met with them.

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 13:12

Nope, he was meeting with them to look cool. He had no role in the peace process. But Corbyn lovers refuse to see the difference between secret government meetings and not very secret posing for the cool kids.

CendrillonSings · 08/11/2019 13:16

Nope its something generally concocted by opponents of the left or liberal values.

What, like that famous opponent of the left and liberal values Harold Wilson? Who said:

‘The Labour Party is a moral crusade – or it is nothing’.

Harold Wilson, Scottish Labour Party conference, Rothesay, May 1964.

Try reading more history and less Skwawkbox and your arguments might not be quite so flimsy!

The Labour Party runs on moral purity and expects an electoral reward for it. Therefore, when they stray so far from moral purity into outright racism, it's only fair they should receive an electoral backlash for it, no?

GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 13:16

Nope, he was meeting with them to look cool. He had no role in the peace process. But Corbyn lovers refuse to see the difference between secret government meetings and not very secret posing for the cool kids.

I suppose being a prominent campaigner against apartheid South Africa was also because he wanted to "look cool?"

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 13:17

He chooses which causes make him look cool.

Dusty01 · 08/11/2019 13:18

I don't want to mention any names. You know who you are ...

It's really hard to read the angry bile that you're filling these pages with. Please - if you don't want to join in with civil, discussion could you go and vent somewhere else.

I sometimes click on the Brexit Arms post by mistake, but haven't for a while, so am not sure if it's still running. That seemed, when I read it last, a better place for you to post these sorts of comments.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 13:18

Try reading more history and less Skwawkbox and your arguments might not be quite so flimsy!

Are you saying the EDM's listed within the artcle didn't happen? Or maybe they challenge the accusations?

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 13:19

I'm old enough to have done my own campaigning against apartheid as a young adult.

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 13:19

Everybody sets themselves up as paragons of virtue. Not specific to Labour.

Yup.The Tories are paragons of conservative values - tradition, authority, patriotism etc.

TheABC · 08/11/2019 13:19

@prettybird. My main grumble with Sturgeon is she does not head up a UK-wide party that can really hold the WM politicians feet to the fire.

Scotland has given the UK a lot of talented politicians and I will be sorry if Independence happens as there were benefits on both sides. At the same time, I do understand why they want it.

My wish? Let's put the UK on a true federal footing that treats each of it's constituent countries as equals.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 13:21

He chooses which causes make him look cool.

Does this logic apply to anyone who campaigns on issues of social justice or just Corbyn? Your arguements are quite desperate.

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 13:23

I know his type. I'm not suckered into the Corbyn cult. Nothing desperate about that.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 13:24

Yup.The Tories are paragons of conservative values - tradition, authority, patriotism etc

Tradition - fox hunting, the class system, divide and conquer
authority - cut 20,000 police officers, privitise the probation service
patriotism - break up the union via Brexit.

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