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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

OP posts:
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prettybird · 08/11/2019 13:25

TheABC - in years gone past, I would have supported that but I think that that option has long since slipped away. Too many broken promises and a WM Parliament (and governments) that can't be trusted Sad

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 13:25

Despising the Tories doesn't mean I have to love Corbyn. Labour supporters deserve better. Me included.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 08/11/2019 13:28

As a Labour supporter I'm delighted with the parties return to social democratic values. At the same time if Brexit leads to a united Ireland and an independent Scotland I'm all for it.

Mistigri · 08/11/2019 13:28

Prettybird, what happens to the Scottish independence movement if the Tories don't win this election? I haven't really thought about that and I don't have an opinion on it, but it seems like an important question to ask.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 08/11/2019 13:33

JustAnotherPoster00
Johnson and his stays on Russian mountain

I am not entirely sorry that my first reading of that led to me saying aloud "I didn't realise he wore a corset. He doesn't look it."

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 13:35

^Tradition - fox hunting, the class system, divide and conquer
authority - cut 20,000 police officers, privitise the probation service
patriotism - break up the union via Brexit.^

Quite. Such is the correlation between expression of political virtue and the reality.

Dusty01 · 08/11/2019 13:42

"what happens to the Scottish independence movement if the Tories don't win this election?"

This was being discussed on Question Time last night. The labour MP Barry Gardiner said Labour would allow Scotland to have a second referendum. But he thought Scotland would be less likely to want independence under Labour. He said that Labour would need 2/3 years to sort out the mess we are in and rebuild services etc and then when things were in a better place, if Scotland still wanted independence, they could have their referendum.

prettybird · 08/11/2019 13:44

Mistigris - then it's up to the Scots to decide if they want independence in an Indyref2 (which will be a condition for supporting even informally any party in a position to form a government except the Conservatives )

It's to the SNP's credit that they still want to stop Brexit (either via revoke or a PV) for all of the UK even though "being dragged out of the EU against our will" and the consequent clusterfuck for the economy (economic impact assessment have suggested that Brexit would hit Scotland particularly hard Sad) would probably increase support for independence.

prettybird · 08/11/2019 13:48

Nicola also answered a question about "when an Indyref2 would be held" in the Q&As after the launch.

Her answer was that it's not up to WM to "tell" the Scots when to hold Indyref2 Hmm. There is a mandate already within the Scottish Parliament, which was elected specifically on a mandate for Indyref2 (the Scottish Greens also support independence).

Random18 · 08/11/2019 14:05

If Labour win and agree indyref2 I do not think it should be in the next year. We need Brexit resolved and hopefully remain. So I would support it toward the end of the parliament.

If Tories win then ref should be arranged with or without consent as soon as possible.

Bellini you are right. Labour supporters deserve better. We're just not going to get it af the moment so we need to deal with what we have.

I respect your support for the GFA - its incredibly important but so is every other person in the UK. The only way to get a level playing field for all is to remain in EU.

Before I would have accepted a deal. BJ's deal is not fair on Scotland especially.

Mistigri · 08/11/2019 14:07

On the subject of selecting candidates with cupboards full of skeletons, the Tories make it look like it's a result of a shambolic and unprofessional selection process ("whaddya mean i was supposed to google him first ... you mean it isn't it okay to tell women to keep their knickers on?") whereas Labour make it look like the selection process being ruthlessly made to work in the way it was designed to work Confused

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 14:13

Thank you @Random18 . I stopped trying to take care of my fellow compatriots when they voted for Brexit. It is pointless me telling them we have the best deal now as part of the EU. And so, as I'm half Irish and therefore an Irish citizen too, I can only focus on GFA. Sadly from Corbynistas' point of view, I'm also half Jewish and can't tolerate antisemitism as a price worth paying.

ListeningQuietly · 08/11/2019 14:13

Gender issues are incredibly important
but if Brexit goes wrong they will be swept aside
and
if Brexit goes wrong the climate deniers will be in power
and will bugger everything up for everybody
SO
Lets get the Tories out of power
then stop Brexit
then deal with the damage of identity politics
while tackling climate change

My preferred political outcome involves Boris, Jeremy and Jo all being forced to resign by their own parties Grin

LouiseCollins28 · 08/11/2019 14:18

Perhaps someone can correct me but nowhere have I heard an SNP representative (or any Scottish MP for that matter) take one look at the "Boris Deal" arrangements for Northern Ireland and even suggest they'd like the same deal for Scotland? This seems odd to me, I know much of this on all sides is posturing ATM but I am surprised no one has pursued that line in Scotland.

prettybird · 08/11/2019 14:20

2020 is and will be Nicola's demand (probably the latter half of the year). She is adamant that it is not up to WM to decide when the Scottish people hold another Indyref.

I think being honest Wink it is also a political calculation based on the fact that the next Scottish Parliament elections are May 2021.

Tanith · 08/11/2019 14:21

"We expect better of the Labour Party. Saying "the other side are just as bad" is no excuse when the other side are a bunch of wankers."

We are getting better from the Labour Party. The Labour Party are dealing with it, hence the suspensions and removal of candidates.
The Conservative party are ignoring their own abysmal record on racism, anti-semitism and islamophobia because they know that, if they attack the Labour party, the general public won't look too closely at them.

TheABC · 08/11/2019 14:21

@prettybird. Fair enough. As I said, I respect Scotland's right to independence, whenever they decide it. For now, my focus is on the cluster fuck that is Brexit.

I think Johnson has just handed a gift-wrapped bomb to his opponents with his NI Deal remarks. It depends if they will actually use it.

Mistigri · 08/11/2019 14:22

I am surprised no one has pursued that line in Scotland.

Because it would be very unworkable for Scotland. An administrative border in the sea is easier to manage: all those goods have to go through a port. There are only a couple of entry points.

An administrative land border between Scotland and England would be very difficult to manage.

Tanith · 08/11/2019 14:23

"My preferred political outcome involves Boris, Jeremy and Jo all being forced to resign by their own parties"

Two of them are in marginal seats, aren't they? Grin

I wonder what happens if all the party leaders lose their seats?

bellinisurge · 08/11/2019 14:23

"The Conservative party are ignoring their own abysmal record on racism, anti-semitism and islamophobia because they know that, if they attack the Labour party, the general public won't look too closely at them."
I'm not a fucking Tory. Despising antisemitism isn't the mark of a Tory. Ffs.

Mistigri · 08/11/2019 14:24

I wonder what happens if all the party leaders lose their seats?

Corbyn's seat is very safe.

prettybird · 08/11/2019 14:30

The Scotsman today:

"We support the Good Friday Agreement in its entirety and are not opposed to a special deal for Northern Ireland but Scotland must not be placed at a competitive disadvantage." (Tommy Shephard)

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election-2019-snp-slam-boris-johnson-after-boast-about-northern-ireland-single-market-access-1-5042000

But the SNP's consistent (and accurate) message is that Scotland will be the only country within the UK which ends up being taken out of the EU's CU and SM against its will.

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 14:32

^We are getting better from the Labour Party. The Labour Party are dealing with it, hence the suspensions and removal of candidates.
The Conservative party are ignoring their own abysmal record on racism, anti-semitism and islamophobia because they know that, if they attack the Labour party, the general public won't look too closely at them^

LP are not dealing with it - that’s the point. Hence the whistleblowers - still no real acknowledgement of the problem.

I don’t give a fuck what the Tories do I don’t expect anything of them.

CendrillonSings · 08/11/2019 14:47

Tanith

We are getting better from the Labour Party. The Labour Party are dealing with it, hence the suspensions and removal of candidates.

Oh really? My mind is almost numb to Labour anti-semitism at this point, but this one shocked even me:

jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-election-candidate-defended-jewish-final-solution-slur/

Labour election candidate defended ‘Jewish final solution’ slur

EXCLUSIVE: Laura McAlpine, the party’s Harlow candidate, claimed 'context somewhat excuses remarks’

A Labour election candidate defended her chief campaigner after he wrote about a ‘Jewish final solution’, Jewish News can reveal.

Laura McAlpine, who is aiming to unseat Conservative Robert Halfon in Harlow in December’s election, supported top aide Brett Hawksbee in emails to colleagues, seen by Jewish News, despite one party official warning Hawksbee had “breached IHRA (the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism) in almost every single way possible”.

Note the very clear photo of Jeremy Corbyn himself out on the campaign trail with this candidate. Labour dealing with it? Don't make me laugh!

Mistigri · 08/11/2019 14:52

Peter Oborne, leave voter and journalist who has worked as a columnist for the Telegraph, Mail and Spector, has launched a Boris lies website:

boris-johnson-lies.com/

The site's mission statement says:

"Political deceit is a form of theft. When people or businesses get money by deceit they face criminal charges. When politicians win power by deceit they can do vastly more harm, but face no penalty at all.
Our rulers expect us to comply with their laws and decrees, to pay the taxes they devise, to make the sacrifices they exhort on us, even sometimes to die in war.
In a democratic society, such obedience has to be earned. When our rulers use lies and misrepresentation they fray the bonds of loyalty we owe to the state.
Our rulers also ask us constantly to resist extremism from any part of the political or social spectrum. But when our rulers themselves peddle falsehood and fantasy they are no better than the extremists. They make any kind of extremism more plausible.
That is why it is vital to expose lying politicians. "