Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

[BigChocFrenzy]

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of ⅔ of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

With regards to students, I don't think it's so much a problem when they are definitely on holiday, or definitely at university. It's the transition periods that are tricky.

At the moment dd has a postal vote for her home address (sent to our home) and an in person vote for her university town. She chose that, because if she is away from university there is no one to forward her mail on to her. If the election is around the time she breaks up for Christmas, that choice becomes difficult. If she switches to a postal vote and it arrives here, just before she breaks up, she could be in a tricky position with getting it back to her uni town council in time.

I doubt many students will be thinking that strategically, but well, she's my dd and I might have passed a few obsessive traits on

Are you implying that I'm implying I'm the weather DRG? That might be a bit too meta for me this morning.

The SNP and Lib Dems want an election now as they are likely to increase the number of their seats, that's politics. The polling shows they will be nowhere near gaining a majority in Parliament due to where their support is stacked up.

It probably says more about me than it should, but when I hear talk of votes for 16,17 year old, I can't help but feel it would be more the mini-Moggs that would exercise it ...

My 17 year old son was put on the electoral register as well Basilpots

Given the crisis the country is in, to delay an election until spring because there might be bad weather in a few months’ time won’t go down well I wouldn’t have thought. Can you imagine if we went back to the EU to ask for another extension due to worries over the weather - we’d be even more of a laughing stock than we are now (if that’s possible )

Plus the weatherman/woman can’t usually predict what the weather’s going to be tomorrow in my neck of the woods, let alone on December 9th/12th!

Sorry, he's now 18. He was put on when he was 17.

Right just checked Electoral Commission website 16/17 year olds can be added online.

www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

Have just added DS.

And realised no NI number has been issued to him. (So something else to chase up ) .But that does not stop you registering.

National Insurance cards are issued when a student is in Year 11, doing their GCSEs.

Are you implying that I'm implying I'm the weather DRG? That might be a bit too meta for me this morning.

Well when I commented on the weather, it seemed I was "implying" we should never have an election ever again, as we could never guarantee the perfect weather. At least one poster winkled that out of me . So I was hoping to spare you the same fate

I dread to think what I'm implying when I say it's turning out to be bright and sunny right now

PMK
cannot keep up
back tonight after work

(both my kids went on the roll before they were 18)

I happen to agree: I think adding 16 and 17 year olds would be too soon to organise properly, even though the Scottish experience of enfranchising them has been positive. They're actually very thoughtful in how they use their vote - arguably more so than their supposedly elder and betters

We complain about people not getting out to vote - yet something that gets young people into the habit early is resisted

My dad (82) actually thinks that the over 80s shouldn't get the vote, or their votes should only be worth half a young person's vote (No idea how they would work that out ) as it's not their future that is being voted on. It's the young people who will have to live with the consequences

kitten. Have you just been put in charge of weather ?? Excellent. Sun please

Cheers Place I will save my annoyance for something else.

Given the crisis the country is in, to delay an election until spring because there might be bad weather in a few months’ time won’t go down well I wouldn’t have thought.

That's if you know an election is going to solve anything.

And at the risk of trying to empathise (I'll stop after this) my polling station is just over 200 metres walk, and even DW could wheel herself there if needed. But we live in a city. I can't imagine it would be quite so easy if you are miles from your polling station in a rural area, and there's a storm, snow, floods, or heavy ice to battle through to cast your vote. Even if the Met Office don't issue a "don't travel" alert.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have an election in mid-December. But I am saying that if we do, it may not be quite as straightforward as it seems. Especially if theres a sense that the turnout was low as a result and that was a factor in the timing, rather than vice versa.

Remember, if you can cast your vote, it's a priceless thing. But if you can't, it's worthless. Literally worthless. As all the people who were denied their vote in June have found out.

It probably says more about me than it should, but when I hear talk of votes for 16,17 year old, I can't help but feel it would be more the mini-Moggs that would exercise it ... I agree Probably the wise and all knowing offspring of MNetters.

My dad (82) actually thinks that the over 80s shouldn't get the vote, or their votes should only be worth half a young person's vote (confusedNo idea how they would work that out wink) as it's not their future that is being voted on. It's the young people who will have to live with the consequences

That was raised a while back. "One person, one vote" does sound very obvious. But it does conceal some interesting philosophies. As does the slogan "No taxation without representation" - which most certainly isn't the UK view. Nor the US either, even though they invented it, and then the car bumper to put it on.

My 93 year old mum votes for all her grandchildren's and great-grandchildren's future. She voted remain for them.

*If we do have a GE and Boris wins, I will be devastated that we’ll finally be leaving the EU - but I also feel it would give me some form of closure, in the sense that the public have been given another say at this late stage and still voted to Brexit.

If we leave without a GE/PV then I certainly wouldn’t have that sense.*

I agree with pp on this, I think any form of Brexit at this stage needs democratic legitimacy of some form and if an election is the only form parliament will vote for then so be it.

A dodgy 3 year old referendum that scraped a leave win is not legitimate and I can't see how it would do anything but cause long term cracks in society if it led to a form of Brexit that most people never wanted to start with.

I would worry that the major economic disaster headed our way by a Brexit based on BJs "deal" would cause major civil unrest with so much of the country not feeling it was legitimate.

If they go for a December election today, it won't necessarily work in the Tories favour. Johnson's only hope is he is more favourable to voters than Corbyn. As it stands, I can't see him winning many extra Labour seats after last night's dispatch on the NHS and Trump. Labour will definitely ram that home.

The there's also the fact Lib Dems are becoming the refuge for former conservative remain voters. They are surging my neighboring rural seats which previously only voted blue. Between them, the Brexit Party, and the SNP in Scotland, the Tories will be squeezed on all sides.

The only saving grace in the coming election is that every party has a clear position on Brexit. Yes,there will be other issues but you can't complain afterwards "this wasn't what we voted for"

I have never really thought much about voting age before but with people living longer the demographics of the electorate need spreading. Government policy has been favouring those who are older and with assets for too long.

amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/11/britain-favours-old-over-young-too-long-inequality-poverty-pensioner

In the austerity years of the last decade, means testing has come to almost every area of welfare policy, except where it concerns the old. If anything, policy measures there have worked in the opposite direction, and the current means-tested element is to be phased out in favour of a higher, flat-rated retirement income

Not for one minute am I saying poorer pensioners should be penalised absolutely not.

And frankly the youngsters I speak to have far more idea what is going on in the world than my elderly parents.

The there's also the fact Lib Dems are becoming the refuge for former conservative remain voters.

I wonder if that explains their new-found love for Boris and the Tories ? And moreover how that squares with existing LibDem members ?

lol DRG
It's not our fault if some people don't have any grasp of statistics whatsoever.

Basil would that be sun and cold or sun and mild?

bugger. DGR

Your mum sounds acePlace.

My parents in fairness have said in the case of a further referendum they wouldn’t vote this time as it has not in anyway turned out the way they thought it would.