Brexits Arms - To GE or Not to GE that is the question?

[time4chocolate]

Will the man from del monte say yes on Monday or will he leave a lot us doing this.....again

Dd has said, 'whichever side you support you should be worried about the threat to our democracy if this vote isn't honoured' and I'm very pleased with that.

👏👏👏👏

Bless her!!
So right xx

He made us watch some ghastly videos to hammer this point home.

I do think it is brave when a young person stands up & expresses a counter argument which they know is against the dominant narrative

The same goes for a young remainer in a Leave heavy environment just as much as the opposite obvs

I don't understand what people mean by wrecking amendments, are there particular things that are in the current WA that you are concerned might be removed , is that what you mean ? If so , which things ?

They used to make us do that at school quite a bit , you had to write an argument for both sides

I have a very political pro leave 17 yo, a 24 year old at uni in Denmark who couldn't care less, a pro leave German ex banker dh. What surprises me about the kids views' is that they are totally unimpressed with the fact that they grew up across Europe and speak languages as a result. Means nothing to them.

“The same goes for a young remainer in a Leave heavy environment just as much as the opposite obvs”

Agree, 100%

That's awful epic 😟

My boys' RE teacher had to have a termination a couple of years ago because the foetus wasn't viable (picked up at 20 week scan if I remember correctly) and she spoke to all her pupils about it afterwards when she came back as part of their ethics lessons - so very brave of her & must have been awful to speak about

All I can do is keep encouraging her to ask why people say things, the framework behind it etc..

This is the key to everything I think
I try to do the same with my boys as well.

During the ref campaign I already knew my reasons for voting leave - because of this I spent a lot of time reading pro-remain stuff & following the remain campaign to see if they could change my mind. Even now after 4 years of strong remain campaigning I still haven't been swayed at all 🤷🏻‍♀️

are there particular things that are in the current WA that you are concerned might be removed , is that what you mean ? If so , which things ?

Not removed, no.
Added.

Specifically, 2nd ref & membership of the CU

They used to make us do that at school quite a bit , you had to write an argument for both sides!

YY!!

I still do this now with big stuff in my life!

Proper mix in your house Megan!!!

Just goes to show how reductive & lazy all the stereotypes are!

Exactly Dusty. DS2 particularly only wants to work in US anyway and since his father managed to, sees no reason why he wouldn't manage that too.

Megan that's interesting.

We are starting to get a meshed narrative that to learn languages, live in Europe we have to be part of eu... Politically etc.

Simply not true. I've had family from, live there before 1975
Lady at work said she's owe the eu alot. Her family came over as poor Portuguese workers.

They came over in 1965 ... I was 'genuinely' flummoxed.

Did she mean she just loves Europe, as in Europe or did she 🤔 the eu as we see now somehow helped her immigrant parents back in 60's

Just illustrates how proganda is meshing itself into people's reality.

You would think she knew her own parents actual history etc. So worrying and we need to be separate out of this brainwashing nonsense.

(how many people has she told... We owe the eu everything my parents came over as poor immigrants)! And people think wow... Thats really personalising the immigration aspect good old eu. When it's not true.

So is there no CU in the WA ? Wouldn't a new referendum require an entirely separate piece of legislation ?

Hi all. Been a frenetic weekend so just dropped in to flop by the fire with a quick half.

Dusty I find I cannot agree with you on Latin. Slightly shocked to hear others have primary school teachers pushing politics. DD3 is on the Vikings atm and their ethical compass leaves plenty for the average 8 year old to ponder.

The older 2 are aware of the tendencies of their secondary teachers, but I haven't ever detected propaganda being pushed. That comes more from fellow classmates having been fully immersed in SNP ism and even that has a counter point.

On that note if Bellini is taking credit for the Irish Sea solution then, if I am reading Peston et al correctly, I think SNP / LibDem may have got a bit of a push from me.

Looks like they are choreographing things such that Boris and Tories can vote for a GE motion / amendment made by SNP / LibDem without actually voting No Confidence in himself. Also trying to avoid the toxicity of voting with the Tories. All the dates look to be within a week, so makes little difference. Also "grown up" politics to opt not to discuss WAB before a GE if both on record as saying Remain is the only thing they would vote for - in that light every amendment becomes a "wrecking" amendment.

By suggesting an agreed GE to the EU it would mean it was us rather than the EU deciding on this which gets the EU out of the problem of looking like it's dictating a member State's domestic politics.

Fingers crossed for a Dec GE. Although unless Labour finds a way to pivot it looks very much like the much overdue clear out will affect them most - even this may be for the best given their current state of affairs.

Dusty I find I cannot agree with you on Latin.

😩 it was interminable!!

The SNP & Lib Dems are being quite canny I think - on the face of it, it seems like a high stakes gamble (betting Brexit vs remain on a GE) - but in reality it plays well for them both optically & practically.

Because neither of them will form the next govt alone, they can fight for revoke & remain & then whatever happens in GE they will be seen to have fought their cause.

If a Tory majority then Lib Dem/SNP can fling their hands up & object to everything but it's 'not their fault'.
If a Labour majority or a remain coalition they can shape v soft Brexit, call 2nd ref or revoke.

If they don't go for GE before WAB then they've blown it - if WAB goes through pre GE there is no revoke option anymore

They also have nothing to fear in a GE - they are both polling well. It's labour that has the big problem (but I'm also worried that the Brexit Party will split the pro-Brexit vote & we'll end up with Jezza by accident 😩)

I was perusing one of the 'other' threads earlier and they were talking about how they're desperately stocking up on food and basic necessities before Thursday.

At first I thought they were joking about it but, no, they really are doing that. Some have been stocking up all year....real survivalist stuff.

So much headless-chickenery going on

I did some basic stockpiling when the risk of a no deal was high - a sensible approach. The majority of food we eat comes from outside the UK and I didn’t see why we should go without because of leave voters. We always stock up on beer when we visit my family in Belgium. Now the risk of a no deal is lower we’re eating the stockpile and enjoying very low shopping bills.

Can’t see why this approach should be mocked!

quiet on here for a change! perhaps it’s because everyone is busy tearing chunks out of each other again on the ‘other’ thread 😬. It’s sad to see actually and I can see a few remain regulars from there and occasionally here being targeted quite nastily. I feel for them, having both been and witnessed others being on the receiving end of some of that same bile in here recently.

I do wish that people could learn to at least respect the voting choices and POV of others. Even if they don’t agree.

It’s always important for posters to remember that behind the keyboards and political divisions , there are real people, with real feelings.

Sorry if any of my posts seem out of sync and a little vague, I’ve been travelling back from that family celebration, with patchy wifi at best! I hope to be a more consistent contributor again soon!

Here’s to all 🥂 remainers and leavers alike.

I can understand why people feel more comfortable taking it upon themselves to get a week or two’s worth of extras in, to cover any intial adjustment disruptions, it’s human nature to want to feel reassured, but I have to agree that some of the stockpiling threads, have gotten a little tin hat at times. A while back I was reading about someone buying camping stoves, masses of bottled water and an emergency generator.

We are not about to be hit by an asteroid. Just exiting a trading union!

Hope you had a good time Epic! 🥂

Just read 🐻 getting ripped into in the other place now - shitty behaviour.

I never post there so won't be piling in to stand up for her - but feel like a twat for saying nothing.

If you're lurking on here 🐻, lots of love to you xx

On the oft cited economic Armageddon of BJ Brexit & the dire warning of the economy shrinking by 6% - an article which explains past the soundbite:

(Also touches at the end on the motivations of leave voters as discussed earlier in the thread)

Thanks Dusty! 🥂 to you too! And a 🍺 for 🐻 if you are reading.

I’m here too dusty - thank you

It’s come to something when I’ve got more in common with Leavers on these threads than Remainers

I just can’t be doing with this ‘blame’ mentality

We are where we are and we need to deal with that

We all need to accept what is and isn’t possible in reality and move on from there.