Brexits Arms - To GE or Not to GE that is the question?

[time4chocolate]

Will the man from del monte say yes on Monday or will he leave a lot us doing this.....again

Did anyone see the dispatches programme last night about the US trade deal post Brexit?

I understand that most on here voted for Brexit due to accountability. Say after a GE we have a Tory/BXP coalition and they go ahead and do what Dispatches are suggesting they will do, how will voting them out in 4.5 years time help? Surely once this trade deal happens, ultimately making the NHS unsustainable, we can’t just end the trade deal and go back to what we pay for medicines now? Or can we?

How much was that Get Ready campaign? £100m? Was that a good use of funds?

So today, am I right in saying we will probably get our general election, however, there will be a quibble about the date?

Bj wants 12 th but they want the 9th....

So it may not happen?

I think there's a good chance it will pass but with several amendments.

Morning @Sunnyuplands who knows? I have given up hoping one way or the other. What time is the vote scheduled, do you know?
This limbo is hideous. I just want to know that ‘something’ is happening!

To answer earlier OP, no personally, I didn’t watch dispatches so cannot comment either way in the full context of the programme.

Sorry, pp not OP.

Thanks, well if you plan to vote Tory or BXP I suggest you watch it. If what dispatches say is correct, we will likely see at worst the end of the NHS or at best huge increases in the cost of prescriptions.

This is why a GE is inappropriate to resolve a single policy imo.

Epic - debate starts at lunchtime. JRM wants the Bill completed today through both Houses as it is ‘extremely short, simple and limited in scope’. Love it when he says stuff like that when it’s not in his control - he doesn’t know what amendments there may be or the debate surrounding it.

“Thanks, well if you plan to vote Tory or BXP I suggest you watch it.”

Might pass, channel 4 are well known for the direction in which they are skewed. I’d rather (to coin an op’s earlier phrase) “drill my own eyeballs out, than spend an hour of my life watching more probable propoganda (from either direction) at this late stage.

I’ll stick with written news (from all papers) that I can fully analyse and digest, plus parliament tv and live interviews so that I can watch real time, in context questions and responses.

Tbh, you might be better posting this over in aibu? We are pretty much decided on our various paths here in the arms. So you are probably (no offence intended here ) pissing into the wind trying to get us to change our minds at this late stage. There will be others on the fence still around the site though, who may benefit from you input and viewing suggestions.

This is why a GE is inappropriate to resolve a single policy imo.

It is inappropriate but given we have a minority government and the issue of Brexit is being fought along party lines, what other option is there?

“Epic - debate starts at lunchtime. JRM wants the Bill completed today through both Houses as it is ‘extremely short, simple and limited in scope’. Love it when he says stuff like that when it’s not in his control - he doesn’t know what amendments there may be or the debate surrounding it.”

Gawd, so much tension! Glad I have a little time before it kicks off though...

Whatever happens, for all of our sakes, I hope we have a clear path forward today. Of some fucking description anyway... 🍻

“This is why a GE is inappropriate to resolve a single policy imo.”

It may be a single policy, but it’s a policy that has caused complete parliamentary deadlock. The deadlock has arisen because there is no clear majority. Therefore, a GE is now the only logical solution. Imo.

Will watch today then, I've been out of the loop recently.

Sorry if I misconstrued the intention of your post Simba, re: changing our minds, it’s early and I haven’t had enough coffee yet . Obviously it goes without saying thar your points are 100% welcome here, I hope my aibu suggestion didn’t intimate otherwise. I genuinely meant that the programme might be better use to fence sitters and undecideds. IYSWIM?

Thought I had better clarify in case my earlier post came across as snippy, it wasn’t my intention.

This wouldn’t be a be a problem if so many MPs had not lost the whip and if he didn’t sell the DUP out. We are only going to end up with another coalition anyway. A second referendum would be more appropriate, although I appreciate there isn’t a majority for this.

I suppose my original question was more about accountability. Whenever the downsides of Brexit are mentioned on this thread like dilution of workers rights the response is always “well if that happens they won’t be voted in again.” My point is that it’s not as straightforward as this, how do we un-do something as complex as a trade deal? Which is why I directed my question at leavers, but no problem, I will leave the thread.

“but no problem, I will leave the thread.”

Please don’t, you are more than welcome here. Please see my latest post.

I’m sorry if it was me that made you feel that way, I really didn’t intend to.

“This wouldn’t be a be a problem if so many MPs had not lost the whip and if he didn’t sell the DUP out. We are only going to end up with another coalition anyway.”

Ye gods, I really hope not, but you could well be right... 😬

One of Boris’s (many) failings is that he wants the election to be a contest between him and Corbyn rather than between the Tories and Labour. Boris needs to remember he is not bigger than the party - his attitude won’t go down well if he carries on making promises of things which he’s do (dreadful record so far) or committing to providing public service which are unfunded.

I find it quite clear cut, unless your Labour

I'm referring to their policies in a areas other than brexit. There are other important policy decisions that will have a major effect on your country.

That sounds like throwing petrol on the fire, where is the evidence that would do anything other than make things 100 times worse and destroy democracy?

Where is the evidence a GE would do anything other than make things worse? Honestly, that is a ridiculous argument.

How could a people's assembly destroy democracy? It would at least make some effort at trying to find a solution that would satisfy most of the population. It would require a decent extension but if it had been done immediately after the referendum you wouldn't be in the mess you're in now.

Simba the problem with CH4 and almost any programming they produce relating to Brexit is that they have lost any sense of impartiality and seem to rely on sensationalism, speculation and "sources say". The very nature of international trade deals means that negotiating should be secretive and of course UK and US negotiators should be talking now in order to get an outline of our future trade relationship. Trump may be "orange man bad" to many but he is one of the only world leaders that has vocally supported Brexit and likely will be re-elected next year. He is also trying to reduce the prices of drugs and is well aware of pharmaceutical companies acting like cartels www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-drugpricing-exclusive/exclusive-white-house-preparing-order-that-would-cut-drug-prices-for-medicare-sources-idUSKCN1UJ354. There has been a trade deal waiting for the UK since Trump was elected, Theresa May was too blind to use it as leverage.

With Trump’s impeachment enquiry I don’t we can rely on him for anything - he probably won’t be around much longer and any deal with the US would be to the detriment of the UK as Trump only deals one way - US first.

I'm referring to their policies in a areas other than brexit. There are other important policy decisions that will have a major effect on your country

Delurking i dont like popping in half way if i dont feel i can catch up, but

I agree with why

I appreciate that this GE is a rerun of the referendum for a lot of people. But it really shouldn’t be. One of the things that winds me up most about this whole farce was the ‘80% of people voted for leave’ bollocks. Very few people in 2017 realised that it was a referendum rerun, and that message is still not going through for this election

I’d rather vote for people i want to run the country...not on one issue

and before anyone says anything...i know that this election will be run on one issue

apart from that

Morning everyone

Agreed Belle, in general I prefer panorama in that programme genre, because whenever I have previously watched dispatches (even on on brexit issues) I typically come away with more questions than answers.

CH4 programmes are almost always skewed to suit their own viewpoint particularly around woke or virtue signalling topics. They may well have busted open some horrific scandal, but I remain skeptical based on past experience and will therefore await more widespread information on this particular issue, to enable me to form a viewpoint.

The same goes for pro brexit programming (if theres any out there ) I just don’t want to be ‘convinced’ or ‘persuaded’ by sensationalism IYSWIM.

“With Trump’s impeachment enquiry I don’t we can rely on him for anything”

Can’t disagree with this in principle!

Morning Rufus!