Brexits Arms - To GE or Not to GE that is the question?

[time4chocolate]

Will the man from del monte say yes on Monday or will he leave a lot us doing this.....again

And what did Boris do - break a commitment and brought back a worse deal with a border in the Irish Sea. I envisage amendments over that.

'chowing down on kangaroo bollocks'

😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣 Thank you

Glorious.

How I'd love to be fly on wall in Cummings campaign headquarters.
So many slogans to go at. Which ones will he choose?

Re Boris v parliament, it is Boris v parliament...

Of course walking, it's All utter tripe.

I think he did it to make a statement to the EU that he was dam well playing hard ball. And that sort of attitude was what enabled him to smash open the withdrawal agreement and rip out the backstop. He gets things done.

He went back to what the EU had originally offered too May. May got a confession from the EU who extended it to a UK wide backstop as the DUP would not support it. We are now back to the original EU suggestion and, quelle surprise, the DUP don't support it.

He hasn't managed to get anything done other than look like an incompetent, blustering idiot who really doesn't know what is going on.

He hasn't managed to get anything done other than look like an incompetent, blustering idiot who really doesn't know what is going on.

This impression is true to anti-Brexit people & anti-BJ or hardcore anti-Tories

To leavers, and remainers who want the ref result to be honoured, it's the opposition who look awful

Hardcore no-deal Brexiters feel sold out, but still see the opposition parties as being culpable, not BJ

He has drawn the mask of Remain, and just how low, they can go.

Sorry Mummmy I haven’t a clue what you are saying?

This impression is true to anti-Brexit people & anti-BJ or hardcore anti-Tories

It's the impression he's giving internationally. I'm not in the UK and that is how he's coming across. The latest letter he sent to Tusk is just like a toddler having a tantrum.

Most people I know originally hoped the UK would revoke. Now most people I know wish ye would make your mind up as to what you want and get the feck out, preferably without doing too much damage to the rest of us and also maintaining the integrity of the GFA. The general opinion is that the UK would be a toxic member if you revoked and that the EU will be better off without you at this stage.

Is anyone else watching Parliament Live?

No! Is there something kicking off Autumn? (DH has commandeered the tv to watch plebs... )

It's the impression he's giving internationally. I'm not in the UK and that is how he's coming across. The latest letter he sent to Tusk is just like a toddler having a tantrum.

🤷🏻‍♀️

Well at the moment, and for the last couple of months he's been fighting against a Remain-heavy, Brexit-blocking Parliament

To leavers, it doesn't look like a tantrum - it looks like what it is - he was forced into doing something by anti-Brexit Parliament

Most people I know originally hoped the UK would revoke.

Which would have been undemocratic

Which would have been undemocratic

Proper democracy is dynamic, rather than static . Once it becomes apparent that it is not clear what a vote meant, then the sensible, democratic course of action is to clarify the options and then check which the electorate actually wants

To leavers, it doesn't look like a tantrum

The UK media certainly doesn't help. It's shocking the way things are skewed by them. If that's all you're exposed to, I can understand how you might believe that.

It was the dynamics going on in the Rees-Mogg very brief statement about tomorrow's business that interested me, @EpicWaffle. Two Conservatives had a pop about the WAB not being brought back; and the Lib Dems had already left for a meeting.

So tomorrow there will be a straight majority vote on a GE on 12th Dec.

democratic course of action is to clarify the options and then check which the electorate actually wants
You mean like having an election, which Boris has been trying to do. But Corbyn is so impaled on the fence he hasn't been able to get down on either side.

“It was the dynamics going on in the Rees-Mogg very brief statement about tomorrow's business that interested me, @EpicWaffle. Two Conservatives had a pop about the WAB not being brought back; and the Lib Dems had already left for a meeting.

So tomorrow there will be a straight majority vote on a GE on 12th Dec.”

Ok, fascinating! Will try to catch up on all of that properly tomorrow then! Thanks autumn

Your problem is that to masses that read headlines it does look bad.
The polls bare this out.

You mean like having an election

Problem with an election is that, other than the brexit party, all the other parties come with a lot of other baggage so it's not clear cut.

A second referendum would be the clearest way to determine what the electorate actually want. That said, a people's assembly, coupled with a cross-party committee to work out the question for the referendum, would be the most appropriate way to decide what the options should be.

Related to recent posts about 2nd ref, & further to the bit of chat this morning about the 'People's Vote' group - article I've just seen in Buzzfeed reporting how badly an internal review went.

No wonder they were all sniping about each other earlier today 😳

www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/peoples-vote-leaked-report-bullying-cronyism

Boris has done everything possible to get Brexit down, I dont think any Leaver will blame him for what has happened.

No he hasn’t... I want us to leave (it’s the least worst option at the moment - I’m no Brexiteer).... If he really wanted Brexit done ASAP he’d have given a week longer to debate the bill and won enough votes to carry the timetable motion (the likes of Clarke and Hammond weren’t asking for much), and we’d quite likely be well on our way
to passing the legislation.... As for the amendments, they’d be tabled whether they had 3 or 30 days to debate it.

He wants a people vs Parliament election, and realises that, post Brexit, much of that potency will be lost .... people would focus much more on other stuff, not least Brexit Phase 2 (yes, it’s not over!) of future relationship.

Only part way through that link dusty. But this jumped out at me....

“The analysis used a traffic light system to compare the performance of People’s Vote on various governance, management, and culture criteria to that of the successful Vote Leave campaign of the 2016 referendum. Out of 18 criteria, Vote Leave scored 13 green lights, meaning “strong evidence” of that specific competence. People’s Vote scored 12 red lights, meaning “strong evidence against” and six amber lights for “mixed evidence”. It scored zero green lights.”

Well well well. And after everything we have heard to the contrary. 🤔

Problem with an election is that, other than the brexit party, all the other parties come with a lot of other baggage so it's not clear cut I find it quite clear cut, unless your Labour
Cons - The Boris deal
LibDem - revoke
SNP - independance
Lab - to keep Corbyn
Bxp - clean break

a people's assembly, coupled with a cross-party committee to work out the question for the referendum
That sounds like throwing petrol on the fire, where is the evidence that would do anything other than make things 100 times worse and destroy democracy?

Just saw on the BBC that over the last quarter the 3 biggest political spenders on Facebook are:
Peoples Vote - £209,000
Greenpeace - £100,000
LibDems - £67,000

Now I thought money bags was the Tory party. Where the hell are remainers getting their money from. Where is it declared? It looks very suspicious indeed.

I don't understand why Leavers are bothered about Remain spending. If anyone is confident in the merits of their position why would they be bothered about any contrary view? Extreme hard leave politicians are ( just about) in control of the agenda still anyway.

The Remain sums referred to are less than the amount the vote Leave campaign exceeded its spending limits by.

One branch of Leave went over the £ 7m spending limit by £675,315. That was the amount filtered by Cummings (?) through the subsidiary group BeLeave.

Remember Leave were fined over £60,000 for that breach alone? In addition to the overall Leave groups spending of : £13,332,569

If the Brexit brigade are so confident that Leaving is still the right thing - then why be worried about any Remain spending at all. Worries about a few hundred thousand are not the sign of confidence and faith - it reveals suppressed doubts.