Westministenders: Sub-Prime Minister at large

[BigChocFrenzy]

Our Sub-Prime Minister BJ is threatening a govt tantrum strike until he is allowed his Haribo GE on 12 December.

If MPs vote for a GE, he has promised them "more time" to debate the WAB,
but that would only be from 29 October to 7 November

• ridiculously inadequate for such complex legislation -

before Parliament is automatically dissolved for the 25 sitting days before a GE.

The GE debate starts Monday 2:30 pm in the HoC
Corbyn says he'll agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table

BUT wIth this WA,
No deal cannot 100% be taken off the table whilst the Tories are in office:

they could still No Deal after transition ends on 31 December 2020,
if they don't request a transition by July.

We don't know when the EU will give their decision on an extension, or what it will be:

The EU may decide only after the HoC vote
- in which case MPs would be voting "blindly"

Tusk, Merkel & most other leaders want to grant the Flextension until 31 January,
but Macron & a few others want to give a short extension of only 2-4 weeks, to pressure MPs to pass the WA in November

• in which case the GE would take place shortly after Brexit, which would be a gift to BJ.

A 12 December GE would also cause serious logistical problems for local council officials:

Apart from their poll station bookings clashing with Xmas bookings for church halls & schools,

they are legally required to send out all the polling cards based on the current electoral roll,
then at the GE, check names against the new electoral roll which must be updated on 1 December

The Rebel Alliance want a long extension, so they have time to add amendments to the WAB,
e.g. a CU, the Level Playing Field agreement in May's WA, maybe even a PV
So many may want to vote against a GE before that ..... but what does Corbyn want ?

BJ as PM could still change the date of any GE after he has agreed to it, if it suits him.

What does BJ want ?
Alice Cooper said it:

"I'm your top prime cut of meat, I'm your choice
I wanna be elected
I'm your yankee doodle dandy in a gold Rolls Royce
I wanna be elected
Kids want a savior, don't need a fake

I wanna be elected
We're all gonna rock to the rules that I make
I wanna be elected, elected, elected..."

m.youtube.com/watch?v=cSvy8HpxFxo

• Post edited to correct dates

and there are millions who want Brexit stopped, or at least that in any Brexit workers rights, the NHS, the envionment be protected

Yes, and they’ll vote Labour/LD/Green whatever.... Those that will support the Tories in order to get Brexit done won’t necessarily. If Brexit is done, the incentive will disappear for many, giving Labour etc a better chance.

Sure there can be a GE before Brexit. The HoC just has to vote for an election one way or another and not pass the BJ deal. What's so hard to understand about that? The EU will extend three months for an election.

That's millions of votes that Labour would lose if they cave in to such a dreadful WA

Labour’s in a bind... They can’t cave in, but it suits there cause ultimately to have 20 or so rebels voting with the Government on this. If the deal is passed, they then get to campaign on issues that enabled them to get 40% of the vote in 2017 without having to facilitate Brexit. They then stand a better chance of winning a GE and altering course, ensuring we remain in a CU and the SM.

bear My posts look fine to me on App or Safari,

• with short paragraphs - but I'm on an iPad Pro

I don't know if anyone else has the same problem as you, reading them ?
Anyone ?

"How is a GE before Brexit possible?"

The SNP / LDem proposal says how - it is only a few days before BJ's date
Both dates depends on an extension from the EU - which they have always said they would give for a GE

After the GE, the new govt decides what form of Brexit they want

If MPs don't agree to any GE in December
then we could get my really preferred option - which is that May's WA is brought back

In fact, iirc Kinnock's amendment to the Benn bill states that passing May's WA is the purpose of asking for a new extension

From Adam Fleming:

EU27 ambassadors will meet to tomorrow to consider text of decision to extend Brexit process to 31st Jan. But with potential for the Withdrawal Agreement to come into force on:
1st December
1st January
1st February
ie Brexit on 30th Nov or 31st Dec or 31st Jan.

@TheMShip how does that work?

I don't know if anyone else has the same problem as you, reading them ?
Anyone?

An aside but I would like to know what others see

BCFs posts always have lots of italics, underlining and inverted commas which I find hard to work out but have always figured it was a app thing

"This is exactly what I mean about the failure to see things through anything other than their own eyes
The policies on private schools or private landlords won’t affect me in the slightest, I just think they are both ridiculous and impractical"

All I can find is the shadow Chancellor's suggestion of Right to Buy being extended (so not policy) and the proposals regarding Private schools voted at Conference that are so loosely worded, they could mean anything.

Unless you are referring to something else?

Sure there can be a GE before Brexit. The HoC just has to vote for an election one way or another and not pass the BJ deal. What's so hard to understand about that? The EU will extend three months for an election.

Isnt the offer of the GE dependent on passing the WA first though - hence the problem.

If the amendment to fix the date went through and the EU extends to 31/1 then it’s possible

There's more than one way to get a GE. A VONC is traditional...

Mship I think a one-line motion calling for a GE only needs a simple majority of MPs actually present

BUT, that bill can be amended.....

So MPs could attach to it, e.g. votes for 16 years old, which the Tories probably wouldn't like, but almost all Opposition MPs except the DUP would !

BCF that's basically what the SNP and Lib Dems proposed. But they can't move it without a SO24.

I mean the options for the leave date? Or is it just the way it's written (by Fleming) and they are considering the length of extension? Im too tired tonight to make sense of stuff.

"Isnt the offer of the GE dependent on passing the WA first though"

With a minority govt, the Opposition isn't necessarily dependent on the govt agreeing the date

That's a big problem btw:
BJ keeps waving his willy and expecting everyone to kiss it, but he only has a minority of votes that he can reliably count on

He's running a minority govt as if he had a majority, which is why he keeps losing so many votes
He probably can't get Brexit through - this year - on purely Tory terms, at least not unless the EU really pile in to force that.

Mship I wondered if only Corbyn could use the SO24

But they can't move it without a SO24

Bercow's off soon. I wonder what he will do?

Offer this so that Johnson can get his election?

Which is why he wants a GE?

What is to be gained from letting this zombie government continue?

Oh sorry Bercows. Should've said, it's the flextension idea. An earlier date can take effect as soon as the withdrawal treaty is ratified by both UK and EU parliaments.

Thanks, I get it now

Don't quote me on this, but I think any MP even a backbench govt one can propose a SO24 debate.

Mship I thought too, that any MP could propose an SO24 - so long as they can "catch the Speaker's eye"

Bercow has such a generously observant eye

I'm not sure that Bercow would grant a debate for an opposition motion for a GE given the govt has tabled a FTPA motion for the same day.

"What is to be gained from letting this zombie government continue?"

"Keep tight hold of nurse, for fear of finding something worse"

There are worse things than zombies
and BJ's WA looks like one of them

As posted, I hope MPs would agree among themselves to take control of the HoC agenda again
and bring back May's WA,
using the justification of the Kinnock amendment re extension

However, even that WA may be too much for the Remainer Labour MPs,
if they fear millions of Remainer voters would punish Labour for passing any Brexit without a GE or PV first
They might even need to have a vote on PV, just to show the support isn't there, to justify moving on.

Both major parties would have access to extensive private polling, which we don't know about, but which would be influencing the actions of both.

I agree about Monday, but is there time for an SO24 motion on Tuesday ?

On Tuesday we should know the EU's decision on an extension. Then Labour might well go the VONC or SO24 route. BJ wouldn't dare set a post Christmas date - campaigning over the holidays, bad flu season expected hitting both his core voters and exposing the underfunded NHS. We'd still be looking at 12 Dec and the opposition only has to hold firm against the WA for a short period.