Westministenders: Sub-Prime Minister at large

[BigChocFrenzy]

Our Sub-Prime Minister BJ is threatening a govt tantrum strike until he is allowed his Haribo GE on 12 December.

If MPs vote for a GE, he has promised them "more time" to debate the WAB,
but that would only be from 29 October to 7 November

• ridiculously inadequate for such complex legislation -

before Parliament is automatically dissolved for the 25 sitting days before a GE.

The GE debate starts Monday 2:30 pm in the HoC
Corbyn says he'll agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table

BUT wIth this WA,
No deal cannot 100% be taken off the table whilst the Tories are in office:

they could still No Deal after transition ends on 31 December 2020,
if they don't request a transition by July.

We don't know when the EU will give their decision on an extension, or what it will be:

The EU may decide only after the HoC vote
- in which case MPs would be voting "blindly"

Tusk, Merkel & most other leaders want to grant the Flextension until 31 January,
but Macron & a few others want to give a short extension of only 2-4 weeks, to pressure MPs to pass the WA in November

• in which case the GE would take place shortly after Brexit, which would be a gift to BJ.

A 12 December GE would also cause serious logistical problems for local council officials:

Apart from their poll station bookings clashing with Xmas bookings for church halls & schools,

they are legally required to send out all the polling cards based on the current electoral roll,
then at the GE, check names against the new electoral roll which must be updated on 1 December

The Rebel Alliance want a long extension, so they have time to add amendments to the WAB,
e.g. a CU, the Level Playing Field agreement in May's WA, maybe even a PV
So many may want to vote against a GE before that ..... but what does Corbyn want ?

BJ as PM could still change the date of any GE after he has agreed to it, if it suits him.

What does BJ want ?
Alice Cooper said it:

"I'm your top prime cut of meat, I'm your choice
I wanna be elected
I'm your yankee doodle dandy in a gold Rolls Royce
I wanna be elected
Kids want a savior, don't need a fake

I wanna be elected
We're all gonna rock to the rules that I make
I wanna be elected, elected, elected..."

m.youtube.com/watch?v=cSvy8HpxFxo

• Post edited to correct dates

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall

I am intrigued by the Brexiter praise of Macron.

He’s not acting the way he is because he’s trying to help Britain or Brexit out.
He’s doing it because he thinks ejecting the UK will make Britain less powerful and France the preeminent European diplomatic and military player.

< and also - importantly - because he wants the EU to develop EU-wide measures on workers rights etc that will help counteract the populists,
but Brexit is taking up too much of the E27 leaders' bandwidth >

What are the benefits of a 'no deal' Brexit Bear?

The way I see it

• Leavers could no longer bleat about their ‘will’ not being listened to

• We get to prove if Project Fear was right or not

• It will likely be very shit very quickly so we get to deal with that and go crawling back to the EU straight away

• The Brexit Party no longer has a reason to exist

• It will destroy the right wing element of the Tory party

• It takes away the can kicking element of a transition period that could technically end in no deal anyway

This whole thing is a fucking disaster

Absolutely Bear Started by a Tory Government, and still with a Tory Government.

Ergo. Tory Governments have successfully shown the public in the last decade, that when it comes to big decisions the result is a disaster.

The one positive to come out of all this is the abandonment of the DUP. And the introduction of abortion and SSM to the Province despite their hypocritical squealing.

Sadly Brexit should not have had a bearing on that but it did really in the end, even though I realise it was based on the NI Assembly not reconvening.

It is bloody obvious that Tories are to blame for this appalling drama. Who else would people blame when those others were not in power. I accept that the whole issue is a total stinking unnecessary mess no matter who is to blame. For shame.

Bear

That's an elegant argument. Thank you.

The one positive to come out of all this is the abandonment of the DUP. And the introduction of abortion and SSM to the Province despite their hypocritical squealing

That's an important positive point that stands repeating - I wondered when/if we would ever see it happen and suddenly, it did! Quite staggering really.

The Tories have had the no deal option since day 1 and haven’t used it
? What is your day 1? The first day on which they could have taken that option?

The tories were elected on a manifesto promising a smooth orderly brexit - no deal was a risk not a threat

In contrast Boris, threatening no deal, was selected by a bunch of masochists.

As I asked - are you asking Corbyn to gift Boris immediate control of no-deal?

It will destroy the right wing element of the Tory party

If people are desperate and angry after no-deal they are likely to be even more vulnerable to the lies and fake solutions of the Tory right-wing so they will be strengthened rather than destroyed.

Ergo. Tory Governments have successfully shown the public in the last decade, that when it comes to big decisions the result is a disaster.

But more people still support them than the alternative

Continually blaming them for a situation you don’t like doesn’t change that fact

That's an elegant argument. Thank you.

Lol - I’m pretty sure I’ve never been described as ‘elegant’ in any capacity before! 😂

However Bear:

It's not the 'will of the people'. It's an agenda designed by the ERG, who keep bleating on about it.

Project Fear was a name given by the right wing press to sully and obfuscate the truth.

Crawling back? Seems you have an agenda.

The Brexit Party (formally UKIP) will exist in some shape or form in decades to come.

As for the right wing of the Tory Party? Do you mean the ERG?

Your last point was just a filler.

As I asked - are you asking Corbyn to gift Boris immediate control of no-deal?

No I’m saying

• Boris / TM has always had the gift of no deal

• No deal cannot be technically taken of the table

And I’m asking

• What’s the alternative to a GE?

placemats you might disagree with my points about no deal but you haven’t countered them very well

Just because you don’t like them, doesn’t make any of them untrue

Especially the last one - why is that a filler?

No deal cannot be taken off the table - if we don’t get what we want during a transition period we’re back to this point again only with fewer options

The Brexit Party no longer has a reason to exist [after no-deal]

Highly unlikely. Now they've had their 15 minutes, they can't just fade into the background. They'll find some tangential "cause" and continue to push for that from the sides.

Restore the death penalty ?
Develop race purity laws ?

We're back to paying the Dane geld again.

Bear Did you ask yourself this question when May called for a GE in 2017?

What’s the alternative to a GE?

A party who’s only policy is to leave the EU is a bit fucked once we’ve left the EU 🤔

DG I've heard many reports that they'll concentrate on being an anti-Muslim party which also opposes climate change measures

Like other far right populist parties in the West

I don’t agree with Bear but only because I think that leavers have invested so much energy in getting what they want (Leave, leave, leave) that the cost of backtracking and saying they want to stay will be too costly seeing how much energy etc... they’ve spent in defending Leave/No Deal
(There is a theory about it that we’ve talked about in these threads before - can’t remember the name though)

Yes I did placemats and the answer was to have an all party collaboration on what Brexit should look like

That’s why we’re in the mess because a non-party issue is being fought on party lines

But that’s done now and we’ve run out of time for it to be an option now

So I’ll ask again - what is the alternative to Corbyn agreeing to a GE?

Although I don’t want a no deal Brexit, we won’t be able to move on as a country until we leave, and I have some sympathy with Bear. If a GE occurs before we leave, I believe the Tories will
romp home as they are the only ones promising to deliver on the referendum.

Personally, I voted Remain and wished the majority had, but they didn’t... Refusing to accept
the result, and fighting it tooth and claw, is counterproductive, and will likely lead to five years of Tory rule and the implementation of a hard Brexit.

The best chance “remainers” have is to allow
the deal to pass, and fight the election based on our future European vision, amongst other things.

Those like me who will likely vote Tory to ensure we get out of this current purgatory will be less likely to do so once the referendum result has been honoured, and we can begin to move on, be that either by immersing ourselves in a further purgatory of trade negotiations, or by rowing back to a softer Brexit. Tactical retreats are sometimes necessary...

Even the ultra right wing DUP bleat on about 'the will of the people' when everyone knows full well that Northern Ireland voted to Remain.

I also believe the brexit party and the far right branch of the tories will disappear.
The reasons that fuelled their rise are still there. Unless we deal with that, it will carry on (and people will be voting for that too)

I agree with that hey, it’s why I think no deal is the only way to begin heal the rift in the long term but I agree the short term consequences will be too high a price for too many people

I agree that we need to leave. There is no other option.
The issue is how and what we will get and that’s where we want to put our attention.

THIS is where labour could do well by ensuring we finally get out if the austerity and people are been put first (which would also help the economy)

The country can move on if there is a Revoke of A50 or a second referendum.

I cannot see what a GE has to gain in 'moving on'.