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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
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Icantreachthepretzels · 23/10/2019 17:35

Turnout will be key, as will how many of Pretzels angry train man there are and how many are bothered enough to turn out and vote for Johnson

I wouldn't be surprised if angry train man didn't vote in 2017 and wouldn't turn out now. He seemed to be of the 'we voted once and that's it' mindset. He wants brexit handing to him - he doesn't actually want to have to get off his arse and make it happen. Especially if it's raining...

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 17:39

I wouldn't be surprised if angry train man didn't vote in 2017 and wouldn't turn out now. He seemed to be of the 'we voted once and that's it' mindset.

The same "we" that won the war, presumably.

Basilpots · 23/10/2019 17:41

And expect he will remain angry even after Brexiting because angry people are just gonna be angry....,,

Icantreachthepretzels · 23/10/2019 17:47

Now now DGR - his dad was a Lancaster bomber. Train man as good as personally assassinated Hitler and liberated France.

fedup21 · 23/10/2019 17:51

I think Labour will get stuffed in a GE with Corbyn at the helm.

Come on Keir-we need you in charge!

Basilpots · 23/10/2019 17:56

Sheesh DGR coming to our country knocking all our pubs down Shock

Unfortunately according to some of the chat on my Twitter feed they are trying to organise a march riot on 2nd November if we don’t leave.

TheMShip · 23/10/2019 18:01

Courtesy Nicholas Watt:

Tory brexiteer tells me Boris Johnson told MPs in the tea room that he had asked Emmanuel Macron to block the Brexit extension request

Asking the French president to refuse request mandated by parliament would probably count as thwarting the Benn Act...

But No 10 is making clear PM is telling EU leaders he does not support an extension. And Lord Pannick, who helped draw up the Benn Act, says it cannot force PM to change his opinions

NoWordForFluffy · 23/10/2019 18:01

Will that muster as many as Fartage's march did?

MockersthefeMANist · 23/10/2019 18:03

...As the Engerland Fans sang at the Germarns: "Two World Wars and One World Cup!"

And as the Germans sang back, in perfect English: "No world wars and six world cups."

Basilpots · 23/10/2019 18:04

Depend on the weather and sporting fixtures I should think Fluff ....

derxa · 23/10/2019 18:05

And as the Germans sang back, in perfect English: "No world wars and six world cups." Grin

BestIsWest · 23/10/2019 18:07

Pmk

Basilpots · 23/10/2019 18:16

Nigel speaks....

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
Basilpots · 23/10/2019 18:16

So does Richard

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
Peregrina · 23/10/2019 18:20

PMK

TheMShip · 23/10/2019 18:23

Basil what is Richard holding? Envy

Basilpots · 23/10/2019 18:25

Grin not much ....

NoWordForFluffy · 23/10/2019 18:25

Basil what is Richard holding?

Something that gives short term pleasure?

BucketOfTheDetective · 23/10/2019 18:28
Grin
DarkAtEndOfUk · 23/10/2019 18:34

At least they're admitting that they're aiming directly at men.

Johnson must not have given Farage enough money or the US ambassador post he wanted, for him to be finding a new relevance still. "Not what we voted for" in 2016 indeed.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 23/10/2019 18:38

I got a reply email from Mr Speaker today 😍
I suspect it was written by one of his staff but was still nice to receive a quick reply to the email I sent him last night. Mini bercows was v impressed!

MockersthefeMANist · 23/10/2019 18:40

Tice speaks quietly and forever holds his piece.

thecatfromjapan · 23/10/2019 18:44

There's a young-people-centred event in London/London-area this Sunday -- if anyone is interested, please DM me and I'll pass on details.

I'm also going to try and work out where to put it in MN so that people can hear about it.

prettybird · 23/10/2019 18:44

All the bluster from BJ about the fact that he's "got his deal through" Hmm: he has only got it (without any amendments allowed) through the 2nd reading Confused. It still has to go through the Committee and Report stages, where amendments can and will be made, in both the HoC and the HoL, before coming back to the HoC to be voted on with any amendments that have been passed Hmm

And BJ has to do all this in a minority government. Shock

Only if it finally passes - ie then and only then - can he claim that he has "got his deal through" Confused

No wonder he was trying to rush it through in unseemly haste Hmm

Normally the progress from 2nd to 3rd reading via the interim stages aren't really noticed by the general public it still isn't Sad because normally there is a majority in the HoC so it's seamless and the committee and report stages form their usual purpose of scrutiny to ensure "good" always a matter of opinion Wink law.

But as leader of a minority government, BJ can't assume that he'll get anything through in the way that he wants it.

....although there is of course the possibility that he knows this and it's all part of Cummings' his game plan to make the HoC the "enemies of the people" as he finally goes into a GE, the Bill falls and he can then start afresh without any safeguards constraints from Parliament. Hmm

Also, if he puts the specific agreement into the Manifesto, the HoL becomes more even more constrained in what it can do. Sad

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 18:49

Typical AI - wrong "Richard" ...

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living