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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
thewomanontheshore · 23/10/2019 18:52

What have Farage and fellow right-wingers got against the current deal?

TheMShip · 23/10/2019 18:54

What have Farage and fellow right-wingers got against the current deal?

Irrelevant. They need something to be angry about.

DarkAtEndOfUk · 23/10/2019 18:55

It still has to go through the Committee and Report stages, where amendments can and will be made, in both the HoC and the HoL, before coming back to the HoC to be voted on with any amendments that have been passed hmm

That does kind of put the 3-day schedule he proposed into perspective doesn't it? He's trying to appease those angry train men. I wonder when politicians will admit they always try to appease the wrong people, and drop the whole appease approach in favour of building decent systems??

MockersthefeMANist · 23/10/2019 19:01

See also, "Well if they can pass the (one page) Benn Bill in a day, why can't they manage the (110 pages) of the WA in three?"

TheMShip · 23/10/2019 19:04

Sorry @thewomanontheshore, I was kind of abrupt there. I do truly think that it doesn't matter what the deal is, Farage and co would have something to complain about. They've gone from Norway++ to no deal is acceptable, and it's all about channelling the anti-establishment anger.

MockersthefeMANist · 23/10/2019 19:07

Oooooh, Essex Lorry, Priti Patel is seeking the assistance of Europol, an organisation she wishes to leave so we can conclude our own really great police co-operation deals worldwide.

Mistigri · 23/10/2019 19:09

Nigel speaks....

I suppose it's moderately reassuring that Nige lies as shamelessly to his own followers as to everyone else.

His main objection to the WA is that it makes him redundant, literally and figuratively.

As for that poster of Tice ... that has to be deliberate trolling by the account manager at their ad agency Shock

prettybird · 23/10/2019 19:11

It's not just c100 pages; it's also c200 pages of annexes. And it cross-references to lots of other Bills Shock - which also need to be checked to understand the impact.

And as Lady Hermon (amongst others) pointed out during the debate, there are small changes between this and May's deal that haven't been highlighted that make a big difference Shock. So it's not a case of "Oh but 80-90% of it is the same as May's deal, so they're just being lazy as there's not that much to read" Confused - it needs close legalistic reading and. not. assuming. anything.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 23/10/2019 19:17

Have they just voted to sell the nhs down the river if the opportunity arises?

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 23/10/2019 19:23

Priti Patel is seeking the assistance of Europol, an organisation she wishes to leave so we can conclude our own really great police co-operation deals worldwide.

Priti is a prat.

Peregrina · 23/10/2019 19:32

I hope that someone reminds Patel that if she had her wish there would be no co-operation. Better still they just let her request drift until Brexit is done and then say - sorry, can't help.

Basilpots · 23/10/2019 19:33

BJ hasn’t done his homework again....
Refusing to appear before select committee again.

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
thecatfromjapan · 23/10/2019 19:34

I've just read the story about the people dying in the refrigerated container. It's so awful.

NoWordForFluffy · 23/10/2019 19:35

I thought my handwriting was abysmal!

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 23/10/2019 19:38

Do they not teach handwriting at Eton? How did he get through uni with handwriting like that?!

TheMShip · 23/10/2019 19:41

You mean he didn't reply via Google Hangouts? All those lessons, such a waste.

MockersthefeMANist · 23/10/2019 19:46

Priti is a prat.

She's Priti Vacant.

And there seems to have been an orchestrated campaign to force Marr to apologise for accusing her of laughing. She wasn't laughing. She just can't wipe the smirk off her nasty little face.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 19:52

Priti Pratty

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 19:56

Adam Parsons@adamparsons

....Boris Johnson has spoken to Merkel on the phone for 10 minutes and told her UK should leave on October 31

< the other 9.5 minutes would have been Merkel tearing his ear off over his lies about their last call >

ListeningQuietly · 23/10/2019 19:56

Just going back to the Essex lorry case ....

So, what to all intents and purposes was a Bulgarian Lorry driving on UK Roads
was in fact owned and run by a Northern Ireland company
using the lax Bulgarian regs to avoid UK Insurance, tax, vehicle inspections and the rest

What will it take to get the MSM to cotton on that the haulage industry has been playing games with safety regs ?
And presumably, after Brexit, those vehicles will be limited .....?

Basilpots · 23/10/2019 19:58

In the Opinium data sheets respondents are described as diehard, compromise or persuadable leaver or remainer.

You will unsurprised to learn 55% of leavers were in the ‘diehard’ category whereas only 17% of remainers were.

Stubbornness and a refusal to compromise is also a massive problem.

MockersthefeMANist · 23/10/2019 20:00

The driver's home address is in NI. The company is based in Co Monaghan.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 20:04

Matina Stevis-Gridnefff@MatinaStevis* (NYT)

The #EUEU^ is pretty set to grant #Brexitit^ extension of three months, to Jan. 31* 2020.*
.....
Last week me & others [sic] objected to parts of the British press pushing the idea that Juncker was "ruling out" an extension.

Reasons:
1/ by law he can't
& 2/ this spin was on by No10, in a bid to push the deal through parlt.

Now that's failed, let's see what this extension is about

Jan. 31 2020 is the date laid out in the Benn Act.
The EU does not want to come up with its own new deadline.
Shorter than 3 months wd be seen as helping Boris.
Longer, as trying to help Remainers by backing a 2nd referendum.
So they are likely to take the date the parlt passed

But, the French, I hear you say.
As @Mij_Europee^ tells me here < NYT paywall >^ is highly unlikely Macron would veto the extension.^

However, he wants to remind EU leaders of the energy, time it costs to continuously extend Brexit
when EU has so much to tackle

There is profound #Brexitt^ fatigue in Brussels & across the continent.
Brexit is negative, it is about taking something apart, bad for the EU brand.
Erstwhile European Remainers now lament that Brexit isn't done yet.
UK Remainers are losing their allies on the continent.

Even so, some already think Jan. 31 2020 won't be long enough to break the Brexit stalemate in the UK.

A general election, a detailed reading of the Brexit deal, a mushrooming of hostile amendments, a 2nd referendum,
all/any of these things could take longer than 3 months.

But extend by three months they must, to cause the least possible trouble for themselves.
Barring some unusual Parisian rebellion, we're up for Jan 31 2020, perhaps until the next time < 🤦🏻‍♀️ >

PS. The Jan. 31 2020 Brexit deadline will be that: a deadline.
The UK can leave prior, if the Withdrawal Agreement gets approval in the Commons & indeed in the European Parliament.
tI shan't hold my breath, but important to note this is what we mean by the ugly word "flextension"

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 20:06

Adam Parsonss@adamparsons*

EU ambassadors will meet again on Friday to discuss Brexit extension.

So - no decision tomorrow.

ListeningQuietly · 23/10/2019 20:09

Mockers
Interesting.
One of my real bugbears with the EU - which they were on the verge of addressing before Brexit blew everything up - is the Posted Worker scheme.
It also appears that there has been a posted lorry regime
which needs sorting PDQ