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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Ellie56 · 25/10/2019 08:40

Is there any way May's deal can be brought back and voted on if only to get rid of the danger of Johnson's appalling offering?

Dongdingdong · 25/10/2019 08:40

Apart from all the logistical problems, as PP mentioned, I think a lot of people are going to be more interested in their Christmas parties, late night shopping, school plays and generally getting ready for Christmas to be bothered with voting. Or is this part of the plan?

Sorry but I find this rather patronising. If it matters to people they will get out and vote.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 25/10/2019 08:41

Sounds like Government has pulled the “Get Ready For Brexit” ads

How many millions is that wasted?

Morning all.

0lga · 25/10/2019 08:41

My local polling station is a village hall that’s being renovated right now. We’ve had a letter from the Electoral Registration Officer to say that in the event of an election, they will put up a portacabin beside the hall as there’s no other options locally . If we don’t want to use that we can apply for a postal vote.

I thought it was good of them to tell us and give an option. Very organised. Unlike some.

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 08:46

How many millions is that wasted?

Estimated at £100 - £140 million.

Tax payer propaganda to demonstrate that Brexit will happen - but all it really did was show how the UK is unprepared for leaving the EU.

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 08:46

Tax payer funded propaganda

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 08:46

Sadly the story of our church hall is a metaphor for Brexit.

For background I live in a relatively wealthy rural village Tory stronghold mainly older folk. Our church hall is rather forlorn desperately needs work on it, it only gets used for elections and parish council meetings. There was a proposal that it could be used as a base for some home schooled children so they could meet up and benefit socially and would pay to use the hall which would generate much needed funds. This went down like a cup of cold sick with two of the villagers (actually one of them was an ex villager) they caused such a fuss the home school folk were put off. The reasons given were increased traffic Confused it’s a village it’s quiet and hall has its own car park, the fact that the children could be from ‘anywhere’ in the borough.

So now we have all had a letter from local Rev. asking for suggestions on how to raise the money needed for the works on village hall. And villagers who use the hall car park as they have nowhere to park by their home have had the charge increased. It’s like Brexit on a micro scale.Hmm

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 25/10/2019 08:47

Voter turn out isn't great anyway so an election at Christmas when people are busy is not going to improve that. As people with primary age kids know, December is a month of event after event, parties, plays, church events, carol concerts. Brexit fatigue combined with a very busy month will cause the fuck it effect where people can't be arsed because they think their vote either doesn't matter, won't have any effect, or none of the parties will fix this anyway so fuck it I'm not voting as my kids events come first. I'm not saying that is right but I imagine that many will feel like that.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 25/10/2019 08:51

My polling station is the school hall of our nearest primary school. It's a massive one so the school stays open on the day but it would not be appreciated by the school at such a busy time in the school year. My last post has reminded me to check when all the Christmas events are on locally and put them on the calendar.

MarshaBradyo · 25/10/2019 08:51

May put a date that would be met no matter what but at least she didn’t do bloody adverts

I swing from just do a GE to call his bluff don’t let him force it

That bill had a majority and he pulls it that annoys me

Hoooo · 25/10/2019 08:52

Morning

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 08:55

If Johnson is threatening to pull all Parliamentary business, what happens to bills currently going through, like the Domestic Violence one? If he gets his GE does it get rushed through or held over or abandoned (again)?

Sunshine1239 · 25/10/2019 08:57

He had no choice but to pull bill

Opposition parties panned so many amendments that the bill wouldn’t have been brexit at all and he would have then lost the majority- plus delayed for up to a year for further referendums

fedup21 · 25/10/2019 08:58

Cynics me thinks that’s probably the end of term for most university students who will be packing up their rooms and travelling home for Xmas and so unable to vote (against the conservatives...).

Peregrina · 25/10/2019 09:04

Opposition parties panned so many amendments that the bill wouldn’t have been brexit at all and he would have then lost the majority- plus delayed for up to a year for further referendums

So you are saying he doesn't have strong enough arguments to defend his bill and defeat the possible amendments? Were you a Leaver who thought we would be staying in the Single Market "No ones talking of leaving the Single Market", said Daniel Hannan. Have you now drunk the Brexit Kool Aid?

Hoooo · 25/10/2019 09:04

I think so.
Like their last suggested election date...half term.
Can't see a GE happening this side of Xmas tbh.

Peregrina · 25/10/2019 09:05

The parties need to get their postal votes sorted then, if they are worried about University students not voting.

averylongtimeago · 25/10/2019 09:13

So what happens if Macron gets his way?
metro.co.uk/2019/10/25/france-wants-britain-eu-within-two-weeks-brexit-fatigue-kicks-10979784/?ito=social

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 25/10/2019 09:13

When are postal votes sent out? My mum does a postal vote and she's normally sent it back weeks before polling day.

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 09:14

the bill wouldn’t have been brexit at all

If an amended bill got through Parliament and it resulted in the UK terminating its membership of the EU then it would deliver the result of the 2016 Referendum.

Sunshine1239 · 25/10/2019 09:17

The referendum promised 2 main things all but in writing

Control immigration
Ability to make own trade agreements

Neither of which we can do if we have a customs union as we have to accept the four trades
This is not what was promised by the leave campaign which is why it’s not the brexit offered and why it wouldn’t go through on votes

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 09:18

If an amended bill got through Parliament and it resulted in the UK terminating its membership of the EU then it would deliver the result of the 2016 Referendum.

^ This.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 25/10/2019 09:18

PIP assessor told claimant to ignore her ‘irrelevant’ suicide attempt… then challenged her son to a fight

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-assessor-told-claimant-to-ignore-her-irrelevant-suicide-attempt-then-challenged-her-son-to-a-fight/

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 25/10/2019 09:20

I can't see anything being sorted in 2 weeks, can you?

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 09:21

@BercowsFlyingFlamingo

Depends on your local election office I think - we only received ours a week before the European elections (but might also have been due to the late confirmation of the elections going ahead). In our previous constituency it was a good 3 weeks or more before polling day.

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