Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
KanelbulleKing · 25/10/2019 11:03

Try reading the threads

I've read the threads. Try not being rude.

TheElementsSong · 25/10/2019 11:04

please don’t mention the 3 month rule

Because it knocks their "assertion" into a cocked (and pissed up and vomited out and shat upon) hat?

TheElementsSong · 25/10/2019 11:05

You think it's a good thing that people whose lives are in turmoil directly because of government policy get no say in who that government should be?

Um.

Is all I'm going to say.

KanelbulleKing · 25/10/2019 11:08

Um.

Is all I'm going to say.

Why? I didn't understand your post and asked about it. What's wrong with that?

Jason118 · 25/10/2019 11:09

@KanelbulleKing the suggestion of a feature is to demonstrate the government's complete disregard for the electorate as a whole. No one is suggesting it's a good thing, it isn't !

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 11:11

The fact that anyone is able to charge an interest rate of 5000% may not be illegal but surely must be immoral. There must be a link between increased payday loans and universal credit problems.

Dusty01 · 25/10/2019 11:12

"Is all this talk of a GE a distraction to actually force us out somehow on 31st with no deal? "

CAN we still leave without a deal? I was talking to my husband about this last night. He thought it was no longer possible because of the Benn Act.

Is it still possible to leave with no deal before October 31st? I've lost track.

KanelbulleKing · 25/10/2019 11:13

@KanelbulleKing the suggestion of a feature is to demonstrate the government's complete disregard for the electorate as a whole. No one is suggesting it's a good thing, it isn't !

Ok. Thanks. I read it wrong then. They way it was written sounded to me like it was the poster's opinion, which threw me a bit as I thought I'd wandered into the Daily Mail forum by mistake.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 11:14

With the growing clamour over the possibility of a Dec 12th election (as evinced on this very website Grin) a really shit-hot Labour comms team would be starting to prepare a spin of Corbyn holding off on an election to save Christmas, since the Tories have already sensed the "Grinchness" of it all.

Bet they don't though.

However, especially in the light of failing payday vultures, I would certainly suggest Boris rethinks his big idea.

He may not give two shits about the timing. But Christmas is probably the worst time of year for an electorate worrying about bills, finances and the coming year. Personally I would worry about the prospect sailing HMS Tory into what might be a perfect storm of anti-Tory sentiment, as people look at their shrinking pay packets, and remember why that is.

Maybe a Christmas election is the best possible chance to make it not about Brexit ?

placemats · 25/10/2019 11:14

But if we don’t have an election then Boris stays in power, his deal will be passed and we will leave the EU. Is that what you want?

And if we have an election and it's an overall majority for Boris then Brexit will happen, in a crash out, no deal. Is this what you want? Soworried

FMFL · 25/10/2019 11:14

Dusty I’m wondering the same thing. Is all this a ruse?

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 11:14

Not before or on the 31st date just moves to whatever the extension date is Dusty.

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 11:18

Date for potential no deal that is.

WhatwouldScoobyDoo · 25/10/2019 11:18

pretty In my experience Ian Murray is a great constituency MP and very much appreciated by constituents. Happy that sense prevailed yesterday!

mrslaughan · 25/10/2019 11:21

@prettybird don't mention the 3 month rule as I believe @Hester54 is of the firm belief that the Home office is not capable of enforcing the laws of the land...... having had personally experience of them - I disagree with this strongly, knowing that the will use both legal and illegal means to try and stop the issuing of visas...... I completely understand how windrush happened and believe the home office certainly has the culture to enforce the law and also often extend beyond it.

TokyoSushi · 25/10/2019 11:23

Yikes, so the EU are delaying a decision on the extension until Tuesday, so the default is still currently that we crash out on Thursday?! Argh!

whyamidoingthis · 25/10/2019 11:26

@ Dusty01 - CAN we still leave without a deal? I was talking to my husband about this last night. He thought it was no longer possible because of the Benn Act.

The Benn Act has no jurisdiction over the EU. Until and unless the EU agree an extension, the current default is no deal on October 31st. Latest I've seen from Barnier is no decision yet due to general fuckwittery and indecision in westminister, although he did put it a little more politely.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 11:26

But if we don’t have an election then Boris stays in power, his deal will be passed and we will leave the EU. Is that what you want?

The thing is, I don't think (and I don't think I'm alone) that Boris does want this deal to pass with him being stuck in power to then see it through.

He wants to pretend to want it to pass to get his election, and if he wins his election, tear it all up and do whatever the ERG and chums really want.

It's just happenstance that Team Boris appear to have mis-stepped on this one and completely disregarded the optics of a winter - damn it a Christmas - election on a public that has bills, families, children and all the baggage of the little people the Tories so roundly despise.

A halfway decent Labour team - allegedly batting for the little people - should have been able to demolish this. Even the Tory backside licking MSM would be hard pressed not to run "The Grinch that Stole Christmas" stories (helped by James not-so-Cleverely on TV).

There's an added twiddle. If a Christmastime election is a bad idea, is it much better to let it fall in January when all those bills start landing ?

Yesterdays rumours make it clear that there were some in cabinet who do remember there are families in the UK that aren't all Boris' ....

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 11:28

Ok. Thanks. I read it wrong then. They way it was written sounded to me like it was the poster's opinion, which threw me a bit as I thought I'd wandered into the Daily Mail forum by mistake.

A lot of posters here (except me) use irony, sarcasm, and hyperbole as techniques to distract from reality. They're Westminstenders equivalent of the Kardashians in that respect.

MockersthefeMANist · 25/10/2019 11:29

Macron, having had his ear bent, wants to give us a couple of weeks to pass the deal. This could see it amended to a whole UK CU, if only in the interim, or possibly a revole to buy yet more time, which would mean a No Deal vs No Brexit election.

Monsterinmyshoe · 25/10/2019 11:30

Don't have time to read the thread, but wondered if anyone saw Sajid Javid on BBC news this morning. I was actually cringing for this man. He was basically admitting that the UK wasn't leaving on the 31st. All he could do was blame everything on JC and had nothing intelligent to offer during the interview. No accountability whatsoever. He looked like a schoolboy in the head masters office trying to blame his mates.

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 11:30

Seems that the EU27 has agreed to an extension in principle, will be confirmed in a written procedure. No extension date confirmed though.

placemats · 25/10/2019 11:31

Interesting piece re sceptical Tory MPs and the general election.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/24/wary-tories-say-johnsons-election-gamble-could-be-seen-as-a-stunt

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 11:32

He looked like a schoolboy in the head masters office trying to blame his mates.

Boris’s whipping boy - guess Javid drew the short straw in Cabinet yesterday.

KanelbulleKing · 25/10/2019 11:33

A lot of posters here (except me) use irony, sarcasm, and hyperbole as techniques to distract from reality. They're Westminstenders equivalent of the Kardashians in that respect.

I'm autistic, sometimes I can read between the lines and as shown here, sometimes it goes right over my head and I only see the words as they are in front of me. Blush

Swipe left for the next trending thread