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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Oakenbeach · 25/10/2019 10:02

But if the WAB had gone all the way through with this in then under the FTPA there wouldn’t need to be a GE until 2022 - and the current proposed transition period ends in 2020.

Even with all the Tory rebels back on side, and the DUP supporting the Government (which hardly seems likely), it no longer has a working majority with the loss of Giymah and Lee to the LDs over the past couple of months. After we leave the EU, it couldn’t survive, and we would have a successful VONC and a GE.

Oakenbeach · 25/10/2019 10:06

It’s only the certainty of a GE that means I’m content with the WAB passing. If i thought the Government had any chance of getting to Dec 2020 then i wouldn’t be.

Peregrina · 25/10/2019 10:07

I agree that for many it was disempowerment, but by no means all. For a lot of the smug Tories in the south east, it was racism and xenophobia. How else would Boris Johnson be able to get away with statements about Muslim women and letterboxes, or piccaninnies with watermelon smiles.?

lonelyplanetmum · 25/10/2019 10:10

The government said that 'No Deal' had to be on the table so that they could negotiate with a powerful card to play if things got sticky. Now they've got a deal. So why now do they still want 'No Deal' on the table?

Worthy repeating.
Step 1 in internal steps to get a consensual deadline close to the 31st. Instead of fighting MPs why not just acquiesce to binding permanent legislation to avoid no deal? The alleged reason for no deal has gone so why cause delay by preserving it as an option.

KanelbulleKing · 25/10/2019 10:15

General election on 12th December will disenfranchise overseas voters. My papers usually have to be returned by next post to reach the deadline. 6th of December is the last date for overseas posting for within the EU here, and that's to get it delivered by 24th December. The chances of voting papers making it back by the 12th are pretty much nil.

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 10:17

After we leave the EU, it couldn’t survive, and we would have a successful VONC and a GE.

Quite likely, but why take the risk?

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 10:18

And say there was a GE and a hung Parliament with a Tory/BXP alliance pushing through a very hard Brexit?

placemats · 25/10/2019 10:25

It's clear that a December 12th election benefits only those with a vested interest in pushing through a no deal, i.e. the current Government along with the ERG component in Parliament. It is of no benefit to the nation as a whole, which sums up Johnson's attitude to the public in general perfectly. He really doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything but himself.

borntobequiet · 25/10/2019 10:32

Bloody hell youre like a teen who’s got a new phrase and intends to use it in every sentence
I love it when the ad hominem kicks in, especially when it's so crass.

TheElementsSong · 25/10/2019 10:37

General election on 12th December will disenfranchise overseas voters.

I think that's a feature, not a bug.

Ellie56 · 25/10/2019 10:37

The government said that 'No Deal' had to be on the table so that they could negotiate with a powerful card to play if things got sticky. Now they've got a deal. So why now do they still want 'No Deal' on the table?

Because this is what the ERG have wanted all along. Some MPs have already said Johnson's deal is the back door to no deal, which is why he is resisting allowing time for proper scrutiny. Angry

Is all this talk of a GE a distraction to actually force us out somehow on 31st with no deal? Shock

I don't trust him an inch.

Frankiestein402 · 25/10/2019 10:41

It is the fact the Tories were unable to reduce net migration below 300,000 per year

Because they did not try. They did not try. They did not try.

Non-EU migration was/is totally under their control - if anything brexit will increase Non-EU migration.

EU migration could have been restricted to those with jobs.

Post brexit we'll need to beg for EU migrants. (actually we're already in that position)

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 25/10/2019 10:42

@Sunshine1239 you might want to head over to the Brexit Arms. They have kool aid on tap there.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 10:47

As I went to bed last night, I pondered on the similarities of Charles I governing without parliament, and what seems to be Boris threatening to do the same.

We may not be able to stop tyrants gaining power. But we sure as hell need to stop them when they have it.

Someone need to make Boris see the word tyrant in context .He would know the allusions - and what they mean.

soworried888 · 25/10/2019 10:48

It's clear that a December 12th election benefits only those with a vested interest in pushing through a no deal

But if we don’t have an election then Boris stays in power, his deal will be passed and we will leave the EU. Is that what you want?

I can’t understand how anyone who wants to remain in the EU wouldn’t be desperate for an election. It’s the only chance we have to stop Brexit for good.

Hester54 · 25/10/2019 10:48

Frankiestein402 There is no rule that you have to have a job before coming here, ( please don’t mention the 3 month rule )

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 10:50

Is all this talk of a GE a distraction to actually force us out somehow on 31st with no deal?

More likely it’s to distract from the “dead in a ditch” and “do or die” comments now that the 31/10 deadline is looming and an extension is likely.

MaxNormal · 25/10/2019 10:52

DGRossetti is at bad of me to picture fondly Johnson meeting a similar fate to Charles I?

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 10:54

Just in time ...

www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/24/quickquid-owner-on-brink-of-collapse-as-payday-lender-complaints-surge

The UK’s largest payday lender is at risk of entering administration, a year after its rival Wonga collapsed due to a surge in complaints.

The US owner of CashEuroNet UK, which operates the QuickQuid and On Stride brands, is considering its options after confirming plans to exit its British operations.

(contd)

You know when companies disappear and thousands of customers discover they have no money and no goods ?

What's the betting that if these companies go under, mysteriously, their customers will still have to repay their loans ?

That's the sort of asymmetry in life that should be highlighted and addressed.

prettybird · 25/10/2019 10:55

please don’t mention the 3 month rule

Why not? Confused

KanelbulleKing · 25/10/2019 10:55

General election on 12th December will disenfranchise overseas voters.

I think that's a feature, not a bug.

You think it's a good thing that people whose lives are in turmoil directly because of government policy get no say in who that government should be?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 25/10/2019 10:55

Why would his WAB be passed if we don't have an election SoWorried? It might be passed, but hopefully only with amendments like a People's Vote added in.

At the moment the only reason it isn't progressing is because Boris is afraid of what will be added on to it. So he is trying to force a situation where he is no longer presiding over a minority government. Basically if he wants an election it's because he sees it as a way through.

Any election during university holidays is going to give him an advantage.

Frankiestein402 · 25/10/2019 10:57

please don’t mention the 3 month rule

So you accept "they" could have controlled immigration but did not try - instead foisting a brexit on us that will do nothing to control immigration unless they "try"

What on earth makes you think "they" would do anything different post brexit?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 25/10/2019 10:58

You think it's a good thing that people whose lives are in turmoil directly because of government policy get no say in who that government should be?

Try reading the threads

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 10:58

DGR BBC is reporting on QuickQuid too:

QuickQuid's owner, US-based Enova, says it will leave the UK market "due to regulatory uncertainty".

Compensation claims have been made from customers who said they were given loans they could not afford to repay.

What happens to the current compensation claims - and what happens with ones that could still be lodged?

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