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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 21:09

I also think Corbyn is, indeed, an epically useless twat.

tobee · 24/10/2019 21:09

So why are Labour still so obsessed about Blair Just?

squid4 · 24/10/2019 21:10

“Please, before making this sort of comment, go and read the poll questions and think about how you would have replied.

Terrible, terrible question wording intended to produce a result that would get clicks.”

Well thank god for that. I felt sick when I saw the headline earlier

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 21:10

I do, however, think the Labour manifesto is going to be quite good. With a lot of stuff people on this thread will like. Even love.

But ...

🤷‍♀️

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 21:11

It has, Squid.

And I just think it's so bloody pointless.

tobee · 24/10/2019 21:12

I don't think people really have that radically changed and believe violence is worth it. It's just not borne out by facts. And social media getting carried away with itself. People making threats of violence on the other hand....

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 21:12

Squid
The ER and zero waste and deep green kids are also rather non enamoured with
anything that turns its back on other countries
and anything that supports heavy industry
both of which are Corbyn goals.
JC has not latched onto the ER / Greta thing at all because it makes no sense to him.

Climate change is the motherfucker of all problems
its on our doorstep
and we are playing with the Brexit fluff in our belly buttons

only by working WITH the EU can we force the USA and China to stay within the Paris agreement and beyond.
By leaving the EU we become apologists for Trump and Bolsanaro
Sad

tobee · 24/10/2019 21:16

That's depressing to think of Listening

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 21:16

So why are Labour still so obsessed about Blair Just?

From what I gather its all the dead and the lies that got us into Iraq and I think its the realisation that I hollowed out a lot of the traditional parts of the party but I dont think a lot of them realise that started under Kinnock, I personally think Blair did a lot of good but he was so in the pocket of the City that were partially suffering because of the policies he left behind, thats my take on it anyway

derxa · 24/10/2019 21:16

I disagree, he's bringing Labour back to the left, we had drifted way to far to the right and poor Ed suffered for that when the centrists wouldnt let him go far enough left as he wanted
Go and have a wee lie down

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 21:17

Totally agree, Listening.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 21:18

Totally agree x a million actually.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 21:19

Heres the policies that are going to be in the next manifesto

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 21:20

Go and have a wee lie down

Get fucked

Violetparis · 24/10/2019 21:21

There's toxicity on all sides in politics, right, left, centre, remain and leave. Not one side owns the moral high ground. Fed up with it all.

tobee · 24/10/2019 21:22

Wonder if a successful Labour Party can get round sucking up to the City and Rupert Murdoch and his ilk, Just?

Bearbehind · 24/10/2019 21:23

There's toxicity on all sides in politics, right, left, centre, remain and leave. Not one side owns the moral high ground. Fed up with it all.

Get fucked

Indeed - the failure of some to see things through anything other than their polarised viewpoint is what has led to this mess.

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 21:23

Justanother
Bliar was a money obsessed git. I have dear friends who are on the permanent "citizens arrest" watch for when he comes to the UK
BUT
That is the past.
Stop playing with your belly button fluff and fight for those who cannot fight for themselves
one of the founding principles of the Labour party I believe
and stop Brexit
by ditching JC and bringing in somebody who can whump Bozo

squid4 · 24/10/2019 21:23

I thought I saw labour at ER and meeting Greta T but happy to to be corrected. I don’t think they’ve been great historically (and I voted green for years- grew up as the generation that associated labour with iraq) but have been miles better recently
I heard some good ideas coming out of labour conference but don’t know what will make the manifesto.

I don’t think brexit will go away now so personally believe it would be best done as softly as possible to shut the door on it. But I know lots of people disagree and I respect that (I very much voted remain)

tobee · 24/10/2019 21:23

Well, I get much more upset with myself arguing with the likes of Just and Ghost. They are not my enemies.

Violetparis · 24/10/2019 21:25

Why the 'Get Fucked' comment Bearbehind ?

derxa · 24/10/2019 21:25

Get fucked Ok Thanks Grin

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 21:26

You realise that Labour leadership and outriders expended so much energy attacking Blair it actually amplified the lie that Blair/Brown caused the 'deficit' and meant we, Labour, couldn't capitalise on Brown's handling of the financial crash?

So we have never been able to fight the Conservatives on the fact Labour avoided a huge financial cris - compared to the Conservatives causing austerity and the massive political fuck up of Brexit.

We have been unable to capitalise on a proven history of closing the inequality gap and lifting children out of poverty.

Never mind the madness of public fights - vicious on social media - where Labour leadership-allied outriders accused 'Centrists' of being Red Tories and told them to fuck off.

Which they did - to the Lib Dem's.

And now Labour is trying to fight a GE, having spent 3 years having given the impression of only being a welcome space for Far Left purity politics.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 21:26

Wonder if a successful Labour Party can get round sucking up to the City and Rupert Murdoch and his ilk, Just?

Unlikely tobee, Leveson 2 is going to make the MSM decidedly not on side Grin

squid4 · 24/10/2019 21:28

I think it goes both ways though cat, with labour infighting I mean... I don’t condone either.