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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 20:51

😂 @Swedish

And 💐💐💐

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 20:51

Most of us are not left or right, we are middle.

Citation needed

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 20:52

Sorry, to laugh - but it's the curse of Brexit. What a nightmare she turned out to be!

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 20:53

thecatfromjapan
THe Corbyn issue is worth considering as it is part of the lurch to the extremes
as seen in Northern Ireland with the UUP and SDLP being wiped out

it also ties in with AOC's smashing of Zuckerberg today
"If I ran an advert in an all black area showing a false election date, would you pull it?"
"No"

as now we start to know where we stand

Bearbehind · 24/10/2019 20:55

Citation needed

It really isn’t - it’s there for all to see on these threads and IRL.

Most people are quite happy with the middle ground.

Not a pathological hatred of the Tories and an evangelical worshipping of Corbyn Labour.

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 20:57

Justanother
You show me Corbyn's remain ballot paper and I'll show you a photoshopped citation Grin

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 20:57

Just can you see what you're doing?

You're actually reminding people of why/how much they can't bear Corbyn.

I learnt this on the doorstep - particularly in the EU elections - sometimes it's just better not to persist.

And, you know, it's daft on this thread because people tend to be fairly well informed because they're interested enough to be informed.

And, what's more, most people here have already accepted they're going to have to vote tactically.

I swear, you're going to put people off voting tactically.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 20:57

"That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through. But, I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now."

tobee · 24/10/2019 20:58

Well I don't think Corbyn has United people. Certainly not the plp. But if you just look through the Momentum lens you're obviously going to have only one point of view.

SwedishEdith · 24/10/2019 20:58

Oh, I know. Brexit has certainly been revealing.

I was trying to find the most vulnerable seats before and found this - but it's just rebel Tories.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/analysis/106514/analysis-most-plum-tory-seats-grabs

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 20:59

Thank you Bear everytime you show up it makes me think of that Nye Bevan quote and its a comfort

I keep forgetting Corbyn bad scary man oooooooooooo lmfao [eye roll]

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 21:00

Listening I know all that. Trust me.

I just find it, on a personal level, deeply upsetting.

I've had friends go from being decent people to coming out with nutty anti Semitic statements because they thought they were being loyal to Corbyn.

I find it almost unbearable.

squid4 · 24/10/2019 21:01

I joined labour cause of Corbyn and so did a shit load of other people. I would also be happy with another labour leader who had similar policies

I don’t know if it has yet become apparent to everyone, but capitalism/neo liberalism is actually gonna kill us. We change or it’s over! As far as climate change is concerned. So this talk of going “back to the middle”... well. we genuinely cannot do that or we’ll die.

This is more apparent in 2019 than it was in 2017 even. And the kids are way more politically engaged than they used to be. Will it change anything? Who knows.

The main billionaires behind the press have a lot to lose personally if Corbyn or similar was in power. And man does it show. As far as current polling goes , the slurs seem to be working... but elections can be fickle times.

Bearbehind · 24/10/2019 21:02

I keep forgetting Corbyn bad scary man

No, he’s really not.

He’s just an epically useless twat who doesn’t have a hope in hell of getting his party elected

If you can’t see that then that’s your, and other Labour Party member’s problem.

Hoooo · 24/10/2019 21:02

These are the same kids that think simply saying "I am a woman" makes you one.

Scary stuff.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 21:03

Tories are the favourites to win the next GE
and they are the most rightwing UK govt in modern times

atm, voters don't seem centrist
.... and that poll red linked showing so many would accept / excuse violence against politicians, doesn't indicate a moderate majority either

ARoomWithoutADoor · 24/10/2019 21:03

PMK
Thanks Red

will now go back and catch up :)

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 21:05

If you can’t see that then that’s your, and other Labour Party member’s problem.

Still not going to believe a word you say about Labour or Corbyn Bear, you voted for the suffering I currently experience and you voted for the party that brought us this mess

tobee · 24/10/2019 21:05

Don't forget that this Labour leadership real hatred is Blair.

I said some weeks ago now in answer to pleasing the membership that that attitude is all very well of you're running a model railway club say, but doesn't really work so well if you're hoping to win a general election any time in the near future.

Bearbehind · 24/10/2019 21:06

Still not going to believe a word you say about Labour or Corbyn Bear, you voted for the suffering I currently experience and you voted for the party that brought us this mess

That’s your problem just

Those 2 things are mutually exclusive yet you seem to think they are linked.

They really are not.

squid4 · 24/10/2019 21:06

The poll about voters supporting violence is absolutely horrendous. Takes a lot to shock me but. :(

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 21:07

I don't mind the direction of travel, squid.
What I hate is the toxicity, the paranoia, and the intra-Party attacks.

Crazy stuff has gone on - most of it based on nothing but paranoia - in order to shore up Corbyn's position and his positions on various issues (including Brexit).

It's been horrible, it's wSted a lot of energy, and I think it's not been good for the UK.

It's good to hear positive stories about Labour Party snd Corbyn support.

But, you know, he's not, and never has been, the only hope of the Left.

It's the members who moved the Party to the Left. And Labour doesn't need to hold on to Corbyn like a crucifix to keep that direction.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 21:07

Don't forget that this Labour leadership real hatred is Blair.

I agreed more with McDonnell comments in the Cambell interview about that, we've got more important issues than Blair right now

Mistigri · 24/10/2019 21:08

showing so many would accept / excuse violence against politicians, doesn't indicate a moderate majority either

Please, before making this sort of comment, go and read the poll questions and think about how you would have replied.

Terrible, terrible question wording intended to produce a result that would get clicks.

squid4 · 24/10/2019 21:08

Yeah I 100% agree the infighting in labour has been horrible.