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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 20:09

But no deal is not off the table!!?

Basilpots · 24/10/2019 20:10

Don’t mind if this Government down tools. Probably better all round if they do, the utter misery they have unleashed on this poor country. Sad

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 20:11

I have it here on a 'grow the fuck up' slip
That's abit of an own goal@JustAnotherPoster00

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 20:12

That's a bit of an own goal

Meh [shrug]

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 20:15

Clear as mud from Corbyn:

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall

Here is the Whip list for Lab MPs for next week.
Says Lab can abstain on early election.

But Corbyn just said election “as soon as no deal taken off table”

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
tobee · 24/10/2019 20:16

Not sure that referencing what Labour students achieved in Sheffield Hallam is entirely a good thing. Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 20:17

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

Word is Boris Johnson wants to hold a general election on December 12.

Historical footnote:
if Boris Johnson does manage to force an election, it won't be until early-mid December.
If he loses it, he won't be Britain's shortest serving PM.
Overtakes George Canning's 119 days on Nov 20.

Bearbehind · 24/10/2019 20:21

I literally cannot believe that anyone thinks Corbyn voted Remain

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 20:24

Just The majority of Labour members support Corbyn.
The majority of workers in the UK are distinctly mor ambivalent.
As the polls tell us.
We might all wish otherwise - but that's all it is: a wish.

It's up to you how you feel about Corbyn - but it's just a fact that, outside Labour Party members, he's not that popular.

ContinuityError · 24/10/2019 20:26

Grant Shapps, with a 7,369 majority in Welwyn Hatfield

Grant “man of the people” Shapps, who blocked a local housing development because it meant that he would have nowhere to park his aeroplane?

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 20:27

I doubt it's Tom Watson, Just - even though Corbynites went completely deranged about his perceived threat to Saint Jeremy of the Holy Marrow just before Conference - in an unedifying display of nutty paranoia.

My guess would be Keir Starmer & John McDonnell.

tobee · 24/10/2019 20:32

Labour members voted for Corbyn as leader is correct.

Labour members voted for Watson "ooh let's just forget that bit"

ContinuityError · 24/10/2019 20:33

If he loses it, he won't be Britain's shortest serving PM.
Overtakes George Canning's 119 days on Nov 20.

At least Canning has the excuse that his premiership ended because he popped his clogs.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 24/10/2019 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 20:36

Labour members voted for Watson "ooh let's just forget that bit"

I didnt vote for him personally but he was voted as the 'unity' candidate, do you feel he has done a good job of that?

Sorry Listening didnt mean to be so disrespectful it's late and i need to take my meds so I get a bit nasty and dont mean to be, civil debate doesnt need shit like that so again sorry

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 20:39

Tom Watson is by default the leader if Jezza wakes up and steps down
but he is SO UTTERLY tarnished by Exaro that he is toast
so its Keir or John McD
or ideally the two as joint leaders as a short term PNU measure

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 20:41

Justanother
I take none of it personally
but
you really do need to take the rose tinted glasses off

he is destroying the party you love

Ellie56 · 24/10/2019 20:41

Just when you thought there were no more stunts to pull... Hmm

Queenie needs to get her finger out and sack him. Then he'd be Britain's shortest serving PM.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 20:41

Paul Mason (on Twitter)
@paulmasonnews

'Hearing from Yorkshire source that Frit Boris is trying to stand in Haltemprice & Howden... either that or a Boris looks-likey is househunting there ...Tropic of Ruislip too hot for him!'

galvantula · 24/10/2019 20:43

"So, the way to get this done, the way to get Brexit done, is, I think, to be reasonable with Parliament and say if they genuinely want more time to study this excellent deal, they can have it but they have to agree to a general election on 12 December."

What planet is he actually on. Excellent deal my arse. :(

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 20:43

he is destroying the party you love

I disagree, he's bringing Labour back to the left, we had drifted way to far to the right and poor Ed suffered for that when the centrists wouldnt let him go far enough left as he wanted

ContinuityError · 24/10/2019 20:45

Hearing from Yorkshire source that Frit Boris is trying to stand in Haltemprice & Howden...

Cheerio David Davis?

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 20:46

I don't want to argue about Corbyn.

We're stuck with him, so it just brings me down.

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 20:49

he's bringing Labour back to the left
Ideologically sweet
governmentally disaster

You only get government by owning the middle
so heading to the left is heading into the wilderness
and leaving government to the right

is that what you really want ?

Most of us are not left or right, we are middle.
We loathe Bozo and we loathe Jezza
we want people who compromise and consider all views

can you not see that?

SwedishEdith · 24/10/2019 20:50

I didn't vote for Tom Watson - I voted for Caroline Flint 😮😭

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