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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:43

Matt Dathan @matt_dathan
NEW: Labour will REJECT the PM's offer of an early election. Jeremy Corbyn will announce tonight. Comes following an emergency meeting of his Shadow Cabinet.

Nick Gutteridge @nick_gutteridge
Well, well, well. This might change the arithmetic a bit for EU Member States.

At a meeting of EU ambassadors last night the French questioned the wisdom of a three-month extension for precisely this reason - they feared an election might not happen and Parliament would simply fritter away the time again, meaning everyone's back to square one on January 31.

OP posts:
OublietteBravo · 24/10/2019 19:43

So they’re going for “government refuses to govern” will anyone be able to tell the difference?

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:44

Nicholas Watt@nicholaswatt
If parliament blocks PM’s early election and govt goes on strike presumably it’s SO24 time. Backbenchers could try to take control of order paper to consider PM’s brexit legislation or a cross party bill which has Theresa May’s deal + Labour’s five pillars

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 19:44

red That poll on violence is horrifying Sad
Who would have thought it in Britain ?

Of all the things the Tories have ever done to the UK, that is probably the worst and the most difficult to repair

Horrifying what Brexit has already done to the country

One may focus on the lost 60-70 billion GDP since the ref, but imo that is quicker to recover from than having so many voters excuse / want violence

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 19:47

Corbyn or workers

Workers every time listening, but a majority of members still want him as leader, myself included

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:47

Kevin Maguire @kevin_maguire
Dead cat alert: Election call sounding increasingly a Johnson doversion to distract attention from his humiliating admission that Brexit won’t occur before his do-or-die-in-a-ditch Halloween promise

Tbf even Laura K reported it pointing out the stiff moggy.

OP posts:
JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 19:48

Grace Blakeley
@graceblakeley
·
47s
Presumably this means they’ll either be conducting a secret ballot to gain the support of at least 50% of members... or scrapping the anti-union legislation they’ve introduced...?
Quote Tweet

Tom Newton Dunn
@tnewtondunn
· 17m
Latest: Boris Johnson's Govt has threatened to go on strike if Labour refuses a Dec 12 election on Monday. PM’s spokesman said: “Nothing will come before Parliament but the bare minimum. We will pursue a general every day from then onwards, and do everything we can to get it”.

Hoooo · 24/10/2019 19:48

The brexshitter Tories have opened the shit filled pandoras box of hate, misogyny and xenophobia and it can't be closed again on our lifetimes.

Pretty fucking bleak.

Hope feels fragile atm :(

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 19:49

justanother
So you want to remain despite what Corbyn wants ?
Would you support his departure if that protected workers ?

Mistigri · 24/10/2019 19:51

That guardian report about violence against MPs is horrific ... until you read the questions at which point you realise that it's a poll designed to obtain a newsworthy result. If a market research professional was involved then they should be ashamed of themselves.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 19:52

Toddlers on strike ? 🤦🏻‍♀️
BJ keeps behaving like an Opposition leader, not a PM

Bring back May's much less bad WA, with the added concessions to Labour
I've always thought MP votes are not there for a PV .... but if the govt goes on strike, then even that might be possible

A political vacuum will always be filled by someone, so the GNU must either step up, or allow the GE

Basilpots · 24/10/2019 19:52

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/governments-brexit-legislation-raises-many-questions-it-answers

Interesting read as why it is vital Parliament gets to scrutinise the Withdrawal Bill.

the bill proposes that ministers should be empowered to make many of the necessary legal changes using secondary legislation at a later date, and with far weaker parliamentary scrutiny.

the government’s last piece of flagship Brexit legislation – criticised by Parliament for giving "excessively wide law-making powers to ministers."

Parliament should not have to take the government’s word that the powers are necessary or that the scrutiny provisions included in the bill are sufficient. Many of these powers have been around in draft form for a long time, and the fact the government missed the opportunity to promote scrutiny by publishing a draft of the bill earlier is no excuse for stifling debate now.

Rushed law is rarely good law, and political expediency is no excuse for MPs and peers to sign off on provisions which they may later come to regret.

Anyone who cares about parliamentary sovereignty and the balance of power between the government and Parliament should care about what the Withdrawal Agreement Bill doesn’t say, not just what it does.

Do you trust this lot not to try and abuse some of those powers??

Because I bloody don’t.

That bill has been knocking around No. 10s bottom drawer for months. Could have been published in draft form at anytime to help speed the process up now. But they didn’t.

Which makes me think they can’t be trusted if they can’t be transparent.

That and the fact Grayling amongst others were trusted to be in the cabinet making important decisions is enough to make me believe unintended consequences by sheer incompetence is also likely.

Ellie56 · 24/10/2019 19:52

Ali Milani is the Labour candidate in Uxbridge.

www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/boris-johnson-uxbridge

Meanwhile rival parties in Uxbridge are circling. Momentum, the pro-Jeremy Corbyn campaign group, is holding an “Unseat Boris” event in the town on Sunday, where hundreds of activists are expected to knock on doors for the Labour candidate, Ali Milani. Labour is confident it can win over enough disgruntled voters to wrestle the seat away from Johnson, not least because his majority was halved at the last snap election in 2017.

His Liberal Democrat rival Dr Elizabeth Evenden-Kenyon tells us there is an average wait of nine months to see Johnson. "You have to get in touch and actively track him down and bug and bug and bug," she says. "I’ve had stacks of people saying 'I’m pretty bolshy and I’ve pushed for an appointment', but what about people who can’t push?"

Sources close to Johnson strenuously deny there is a nine-month wait and insist that urgent cases are prioritised. But a spokesperson declined to say exactly how often he holds constituency surgeries.

"He only comes round for the photo ops, he’s very good at that," Milani says. "I say to people, do you think if I dropped Boris at the end of the road, he would find his way home? He wouldn’t know where he is."

Labour is determined to make the most of Johnson’s perceived absence. In Milani, the party has selected a 24-year-old immigrant from Iran who grew up in an Uxbridge council house and attended the town's Brunel University, where he was student union president before becoming vice president of the National Union of Students.

He believes his background is going down well on the doorstep. "Traditional voters here have a history of a good local MP," Milani says. "I’m a local candidate – I just live down the road, I went to uni here. It cuts through. I say to people 'If I was to fall down and break my leg today which hospital would I go to? Hillingdon. Ask the other candidates which hospital they’d go to.'"

Milani is also determined to harness the youth vote. "There’s no-one who can turn out student votes like I can," he says. "My vision has always been we can do here what students in Sheffield did to Nick Clegg." He is planning a big student voter registration drive at Brunel in September and says a general election in term time, when students will vote here rather than at home, would be a big boost to Labour.

Johnson is among a number of senior Tory MPs in marginal seats being targeted in Momentum’s "Unseat" campaign, amid speculation that the Brexit crisis could spark an election within months (both Milani and Evenden-Kenyon believe it will take place this autumn).

Also in the group’s sights are Iain Duncan Smith, who has a 2,438 majority in Chingford and Woodford Green in north London, Grant Shapps, with a 7,369 majority in Welwyn Hatfield in Hertfordshire, and Amber Rudd who has a wafer-thin majority of just 346 in Hastings and Rye, East Sussex.

SwedishEdith · 24/10/2019 19:52

Labour should only agree to a GE if vote extended to 16 year olds and EU citizens resident in UK for last, oo, 3.5 years. They are the group most affected by Brexit and he's only calling this GE because of Brexit.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 19:53

So you want to remain despite what Corbyn wants?

What current evidence do we have that Corbyn wants to leave? He voted Remain in the ref and in all interviews leading up to the ref he said he wanted to Remain and reform

OublietteBravo · 24/10/2019 19:53

I’m actually feeling surprisingly hopeful tonight. Possibly because I’m more relaxed than usual as I’m on holiday in Cyprus, and the DC have gone bowling with their new Polish and German friends.

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 24/10/2019 19:57

Just listening to Anna Soubry on Channel 4 news.
The trap in the current Brexit Deal is the negotiation which will start after the Brexit day.
If there is no agreement during the pot Brexit negotiation stage; then a No Deal Brexit is automatic in December 2020

Once Bojo's government gets a majority, they will just trash the country.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 19:58

Ambassador leaves parting shot !

James Crispp@JamesCrisp6*

Ex US ambassador to the EU drawing attention to something from May 2016 that current Home Secretary @sajidjavidd^ would probably rather forget..

Anthony Gardner**@tonylgardner (US ambdr)

Sajid Javid: The only thing leaving the EU guarantees is a lost decade for British business

https://www.sajidjavid.com/news/sajid-javid-only-thing-leaving-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 24/10/2019 19:59

Steve Baker's majority is "only" 6,500 - although he did get 50% of the vote

I don't care: I want the cringing creep OUT. Y'know, I would vote for Farage himself if I could be sure it meant Baker lost. I utterly despise him.

Basilpots · 24/10/2019 20:00

Tory Government Goes On Strike"

I hope they have decent union reps Grin

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 20:05

Justanother
He voted Remain in the ref proof please
drop the blinkers
he's wanted to leave the EU since the UK joined
he consistently voted against everything EU for 30 years
and yet you persist in believing that in June 2016 he was suddenly pro EU
even though he called for A50 the next day
and has done NOTHING to stop the Tories dragging us out since

Brexit is not a party issue
but Corbyn is a liability to every worker in the UK

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 20:06

Labour turning an opportunity into disaster ?

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall

one shadow cabinet minister:
"It's a battleground- an out and out bloodbath."

I've got Labour MPs and Shadow Cabinet ministers telling me decision has been made and Lab won't support an election.
I've also got Labour MPs and Shadow Cabinet ministers telling me a final decision hasn't been made.

What. Does. That. Mean.

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 20:06

He voted Remain in the ref
You can believe anything you want - but you simply can't back up that statement

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 20:07

I've also got Labour MPs and Shadow Cabinet ministers telling me a final decision hasn't been made.

What. Does. That. Mean.

Fatberg Slim Tom Watson no doubt

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 20:08

He voted Remain in the ref proof please

I have it here on a 'grow the fuck up' slip