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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
prettybird · 24/10/2019 18:35

BJ and Smug have faces that make me want to deserve..... not going to write it down ....Wink

I too have never loathed and despised any people this much SadAngry

MockersthefeMANist · 24/10/2019 18:35

Parties may organise cars to get people to the polls if they ask. More likely they will arrange a postal vote. But these are the engaged voters. It's the disengaged walk-ups who don't give it a thought until the day who can't be bothered to go out in the rain.

Usually hits Labour hardest.

tobee · 24/10/2019 18:35

I was just talking to dd about how I loathed Johnson more than Thatcher, Mrsl!!!! ShockShock

She thought she knew best but she wasn't a lying narcissist with psychopathic tendencies.

tobee · 24/10/2019 18:36

Yes my parents did that Mrsl. Very common here too!

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 18:38

He's threatening to just keep repeating the vote and not put forward any other parliamentary business

Classic Dom.

prettybird · 24/10/2019 18:38

@mrslaughan - yes it does happen here. Canvassers will identify people who need support. There is also a ring around to check if known supporters need help. Obviously, they can then vote for who they like - but the hope is that you increase "your" vote Grin

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 18:38

May play well to the Brexiteers - but what of the Conservstive voters in Wimbledon?

tobee · 24/10/2019 18:39

I used to do telling for the Labour Party frequently and I believe the whole point was to check we'd got our vote out and offer lifts if necessary.

Jellykat · 24/10/2019 18:39

Interesting questionnaires and pre paid envelopes arrived in post today for family, signed by Boris..
2 pages asking us every which way about what we consider important re. the NHS. Most confused at first, knowing he doesn't give a fuck, and would quite happily sell to Trump.. THEN came the crux of the matter - last question 'On a scale of 1- 10 how likely are you to vote for the following parties in a general election?.. with a full list.
Anyone else had this or is it confined to Wales?
'

UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe · 24/10/2019 18:41

Love that newsthump headline fluffy

So the QS passes. Has Jon Worth done a new diagram so I can figure out what’s going on after this? Or is it just not worth bothering with as everything is bound to be arse about face for the next few months?

Oakenbeach · 24/10/2019 18:42

Canvassers will identify people who need support. There is also a ring around to check if known supporters need help.

And has done for years.... my family on my mother’s grandfathers were leading Tories in their local association.... In the 1930s when he moved away for work, they sent a party car to chauffeur him to the polling booth. He voted Liberal.

tobee · 24/10/2019 18:43

Wimbledon is going to be well fucking interesting.

The last Labour candidate was being investigated for fraud by the police according to an email sent out to members on the eve of poll.

The Labour candidate this time is fully momentum endorsed and Little OJ was speaker for her before the selection. Confused

Don't know what Stephen Hammond will do.

SwedishEdith · 24/10/2019 18:43

Xmas party season as well. Lots will miss it unless organised enough to vote before go to work or postal vote.

Oakenbeach · 24/10/2019 18:44

Intrigued at how the QS had such a majority given parliamentary maths.... Even with all rebel Tories onside, and even if the DUP returned to the fold for this vote, I understood they still didn’t have a majority.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 18:45

Honestly.

You see, that's the Corbyn problem in a nutshell. Are they a Lexiteer too, Tobee? That would be the cherry on the cake.

There seems to have been a kind of madness afoot with some of the candidates chose no

prettybird · 24/10/2019 18:46

The QS is meaningless as there is going to be a GE - whether in December, January or February - so there will be no time to get anything in it on to the statute books. Confused

So it will fall when Parliament is dissolved. Hmm

I suspect that's why there were the abstentions. Plus the grey area of whether voting against it counted as a VONC Confused

runningintothesunset · 24/10/2019 18:48

Best for Britain has a link to sign up for tactical voting advice...

www.bestforbritain.org/getvoting

SwedishEdith · 24/10/2019 18:49

Kevin Schofield
@PolhomeEditor

Asked if they’ll vote for an election on Monday, one Labour MP says: “Only if someone gives me strongly hallucinogenic drugs immediately prior to the vote. Bring on the WAB and let’s see how long that coalition of ERG ultras, wet Tories and Labour leavers holds together.”

Oakenbeach · 24/10/2019 18:50

Looks like BJ won’t get the votes for a GE based on Twitter...

If so, the opposition need a plan. A VONC followed by a “GNU”, but not sure they have the votes for such a thing now given rebel Tories are unlikely to support such a thing even without Corbyn.

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 18:51

@tobee - who is the little OJ?

tobee · 24/10/2019 18:51

Had a quick google cat and surprise, surprise she follows the party line to the letter.

tobee · 24/10/2019 18:53

Fond term for Owen Jones.

Use of the term fond maybe sarcastic

TheMShip · 24/10/2019 18:53

What do you all think of this proposal courtesy Ian Dunt?

Hold out for a bit. Make Johnson sit there with no bill and no election. Then give a speech on November 1st saying he's broken his promise and you call on him to offer an election and face the voters.

tobee · 24/10/2019 18:53

That was to @mrslaughan

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 18:57

@tobee - thanks!
He's an "interesting character "
Saw a interview of him and Alastair Campbell - the little OJ came over as exceedingly arrogant.....he's a smart arse...... and well I just prefer people that are smart