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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

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Thread gallery
22
OublietteBravo · 24/10/2019 19:00

Postal votes + Christmas posting dates?
Anyone else foresee a problem?

SansaSnark · 24/10/2019 19:01

This evening I had some Labour canvassers on my doorstep. I live in a Conservative seat, with a

LarkDescending · 24/10/2019 19:03

I had to laugh at Sajid Javid tweeting at 6.10pm that “this Parliament has run its course” about half an hour after the Queen’s Speech had been passed in the new Parliamentary session. What a charade.

IDontBelieveYou · 24/10/2019 19:04

PMK

Icantreachthepretzels · 24/10/2019 19:05

(Who is the Labour candidate? Do we know?)

I think I saw a promotional video he put out - but I can't remember his name. He made a big thing of actually being local and from a 'normal' background. He's Asian - and up against the bastions of white male privilege that are BJ and NF swinging their dicks at each other, not being a part of that old boy network (but unlike them actually being local) could well work in his favour.

I know it was a promotional vote and therefore the entire point of it - but I have to say I liked him. Of course I don't live in that constituency so that doesn't matter - but 'filthy piece of toerag' lady lives there Grin I reckon he'll have her vote.

If BJ runs away from NF that looks dreadful. In fact if he leaves his seat for a safer one full stop it looks dreadful. And of course NF can follow him wherever he goes because BXP isn't a real party with a normal set up. But them standing against each other must surely split the vote and let someone else in? And surely they can both see that?

NoWordForFluffy · 24/10/2019 19:06

I like Ian Dunt's idea re Nov 1st. Cunning!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 19:11

Janine Gibson
@janinegibson
·
1h
Actually I love a Christmas election. The candlelit polling booths, the scent of cinamon and nutmeg from the Use Pens cookies, the festive reminders to register for the electoral roll on every doorstep in the land. It’s a very special time of year

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:18

The rumour about Nige in Uxbridge has been around for a while.

I think it plausible.

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Peregrina · 24/10/2019 19:19

I am pretty sure that BJ has written off Scotland - but expects to get his majority from Labour heartlands

Wishful thinking.

OublietteBravo · 24/10/2019 19:20

Remember a government is for the 5 year term specified by the FTPA, not just for Christmas...

SwedishEdith · 24/10/2019 19:22

Nicholas Watt
@nicholaswatt
Source in ex Tory rebel alliance. Boris Johnson has done so well to turn a Remain Parliament into a Brexit Parl. He was winning. Then he goes back to No 10, gets shouted at and then does something stupid like offer Labour this trap. Of course they’re going to avoid it. It’s over

Love the "gets shouted at" detail.

prettybird · 24/10/2019 19:24

I hope it is wishful thinking on his part Smile - but given he's going to lose up to 12 seats in Scotland Shock (I'll assume he manages to retain the single seat that had been all the Conservatives had had in Scotland for years, up to 2017 Wink - but even that one was marginal in 2015 Grin), he's going to have to find seats elsewhere and hopefully fails to do so Wink

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:27

Matt Dathan @matt_dathan
^NEW: The Government has tonight officially pulled the November 6 Budget.
A Treasury source said: "Parliament has voted for a delay. We're calling for an election so we won't be delivering the Budget on November 6."^

In headlines you thought you'd never see I give to you:

"Tory Government Goes On Strike"

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BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 19:31

"Leaving/not leaving the EU should have been a non party political issue"

Not possible, because Brexit is a project created entirely by the Tories, noone else
The Opposition has been lamentably ineffective, but they were mostly wrongfooted / scared by the populist madness

The LDems have always been pro Common Market / EC / EU

Labour is overwhelmingly a Remain party, just as the Tories are overwhelmingly Leave

The various Nationalist parties, except for the DUP, are also Remain

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:32

Jim Pickard@pickardje
A Brexit year is equivalent to seven human years

That means I've been on MN around 32 years if I include normal years before the referendum.

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Mistigri · 24/10/2019 19:32

Asked if they’ll vote for an election on Monday, one Labour MP says: “Only if someone gives me strongly hallucinogenic drugs immediately prior to the vote. Bring on the WAB and let’s see how long that coalition of ERG ultras, wet Tories and Labour leavers holds together.”

They just need to hold their nerve. (And replace their leader, but first they need to sit tight and hold the Fatberg's extremities to the fire).

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:36

You know how I have bleak moments worrying about how perilously close we are sailing to Very Bad Things?

Well I'm just going to park this here:

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
Most voters believe violence against MPs ‘is price worth paying’ over Brexit

Research finds majority of both leave and remain voters feel violence worth it to get outcome they support

Most leave voters who took part in the Future of England study thought violence towards MPs was a “price worth paying” for Brexit to be delivered – 71% in England, 60% in Scotland and 70% in Wales.

And

The majority of remain voters felt that potential violence was worth it if it meant we would stay in the EU – 58% in England, 53% in Scotland and 56% in Wales.

Most also thought that violence towards MPs and violent protests in which people are “badly injured” were likely to occur if and when Brexit happens.

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RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:38

Adam Parsons @adamparsons
NEW: Consensus growing around an EU extension deal that would set date of Nov 15th, but would automatically extend to Jan 31st if withdrawal agreement not ratified in Westminster.

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ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 19:38

Cancelling the Budget - now that REALLY buggers up tax legislation Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 19:39

Different Labour sources giving v different signals !

Adam Parsons**@adamparsons

NEW:
Consensus growing around an EU extension deal that would set date of Nov 15th,
but would automatically extend to Jan 31st if withdrawal agreement not ratified in Westminster.

=====
Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall

Aaaaaand there we go.

This could be nightmare scenario. < Hmm >^
^
No ratification by 15th and then too late for December 12th election. ^
^
Then either election in January and campaigning OVER festive break
or everything just strings out even further.

If that is what EU offers, Lab would be mad not to vote for election on Monday in exchange for pulling the WAB.

Am being told Labour are going to reject the election.
But another senior Lab source says party “currently in deep discussions” < 😂 >

discussion among shadow cabinet is which is the real trap?
to reject or accept?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 19:39

And replace their leader

Blah blah blah Grin

Labour does something good, everyone gets credit but Corbyn

Labour does something stupid def Corbyns fault Hmm

TheMShip · 24/10/2019 19:40

Red that article is shocking. I am stunned that the numbers are so high. Pollsters need to start tracking this, we need to see some replicability.

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:40

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Latest: Boris Johnson's Govt has threatened to go on strike if Labour refuses a Dec 12 election on Monday. PM’s spokesman said: “Nothing will come before Parliament but the bare minimum. We will pursue a general every day from then onwards, and do everything we can to get it”.

Political journalists will be smiling and booking last minute holidays.

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RedToothBrush · 24/10/2019 19:41

Nicholas Watt@nicholaswatt
It’s over. Labour position: abstain on early election vote. Labour MPs free to vote no if they want

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ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 19:42

Justanother
Which to you is more important ?
The rights of millions of workers in the UK that would be preserved by staying in the EU ....
Saving Corbyn's legacy by leaving the EU and bollocksing the above?

Corbyn or workers
pick one

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